Ukraine, housing a refugee.

[DefTrap]

One of my in-laws has been taking in refugees for some time from all over the place (I briefly met one of them, wasn't really paying attention as my in-law is a weirdo - let's just say he looked like a skinny African and he couldn't speak the lingo). He seemed nice enough but he looked terribly bewildered by the whole middle class UK thing. I don't think it was a bed of roses on either side, being nice isn't often enough - I get the impression he'd almost have rather been back home being shot at than living with well intentioned northern lefties.

But there you go, they tried I suppose. I bet she has a house full of Ukrainians now.

[Wreckless Rat]

Nope.

It’s funny isn’t it. The USA has been bombing the shit out of various countries and civilians for decades. Putin does it and OMG how evil is he and everyone scurries about gathering aid, giving up rooms in their homes etc etc etc. I guess these ones are white enough to care about.

I guess it does give the internets vaccine and virus experts a new role now covid has suddenly vanished from sight.

[weeksy]

Nope.

It’s funny isn’t it. The USA has been bombing the shit out of various countries and civilians for decades. Putin does it and OMG how evil is he and everyone scurries about gathering aid, giving up rooms in their homes etc etc etc. I guess these ones are white enough to care about.

I guess it does give the internets vaccine and virus experts a new role now covid has suddenly vanished from sight.

Is that really how you see it ? Or are you just looking to provoke reactions ? I'm far from political, but i really don't see it like that.

You think the US have just been attacking in the same way as Putin is ? For what end goal ? to overthrow a country/power in the same way and take over it ? or to help someone who has been put-upon by another force ?

[weeksy]

Edited to add...take a trip to Afghanistan and ask them if they think the west helped them or shafted them.

Unlike you, i've never been.... hence why i'm discussing it.

[Mussels]

Nope.

It’s funny isn’t it. The USA has been bombing the shit out of various countries and civilians for decades. Putin does it and OMG how evil is he and everyone scurries about gathering aid, giving up rooms in their homes etc etc etc. I guess these ones are white enough to care about.

I guess it does give the internets vaccine and virus experts a new role now covid has suddenly vanished from sight.

There's certainly a whiff of hypocrisy but I don't remember the States threatening nuclear war with anyone who interfered with their interfering. Russia has been supporting opposing groups in the middle east for years but now it's invading a neighbour the rules have to change?

[slowsider]

Edited to add...take a trip to Afghanistan and ask them if they think the west helped them or shafted them.

Unlike you, i've never been.... hence why i'm discussing it.

The west aided the mujahideen freedom fighters against the Russians back in the 80s. Watch 'Charlie Wilson's War' for an accessible perspective. When they started fighting against the west they became terrorists.

Before Saddam became the bad guy, he was the west's bestie against Iran, who had rejected a pro-western leader. The Iranian revolution kicked off because the US & UK supported a coup against a democratically elected govt.

[weeksy]

t looks like you totally believe that the west is on the side of divine righteousness and you're surprised at anyone that doesn't.

LOL don't be silly now.... you can't tell me what i do or don't believe..... Mostly becuase, i don't actually believe anything in this context as i don't have enough knowledge either way

[Wreckless Rat]

Nope.

It’s funny isn’t it. The USA has been bombing the shit out of various countries and civilians for decades. Putin does it and OMG how evil is he and everyone scurries about gathering aid, giving up rooms in their homes etc etc etc. I guess these ones are white enough to care about.

I guess it does give the internets vaccine and virus experts a new role now covid has suddenly vanished from sight.

Is that really how you see it ? Or are you just looking to provoke reactions ? I'm far from political, but i really don't see it like that.

You think the US have just been attacking in the same way as Putin is ? For what end goal ? to overthrow a country/power in the same way and take over it ? or to help someone who has been put-upon by another force ?

Its how I see it.

Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria etc etc.

We aided the USA in killing hundreds of thousands of people in Iraq - under the guise of WMD, when in fact it was to stop Saddam moving away from the USD and selling his oil in Euros. We only care about Ukraine because thats what we have been told we must do, and they are white enought o care about. We fucked over the people in Afghanistan but they are a bit brown to care about so thats ok.

People have been told Putin is evil, yet no one is mentioning the UKraines have been killing their own in the Donbas region since 2014. What about the mass graves and NATO funded bio labs? Possibly Russian propoganda, possibly not, but it doesnt even make our news.

NATO (ie the USA) is the biggest threat to world peace, at the end of the cold war, it should have reduced, or at least not expanded. Its pushed forward more and more, why? Russia wasnt a threat, up until this, the USA was the only super power still going around the world invading and bombing the shit out of countries, killing civillians in their tens of thousands. That never makes the news like this. So why don't you care so much for all the people who died in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan? Why aren't people opening up their spare bedrooms for them?

Putin is an arse, before you accuse me of being a Russian troll. But.... he wanted to JOIN NATO, we wouldnt let him, as without the Russian bogeyman, NATO had no purpose and all those lovely arms contracts....well, they would be ahrder to justify to the good ol' tax payer.

[Docca]

Yes, we’ll be applying to help. That probably makes me a racist.

[Wreckless Rat]

Yes, we’ll be applying to help. That probably makes me a racist.

Good try, but you wouldnt have been one of those crying to close the borders from the Syrians etc.

[Docca]

Three reasons: one of our AU Pairs was Ukrainian and it looks as though the process this time around is a lot easier. The third reason is purely because I think we’ve been shocking on how we’ve supported folk so far.

No, I wasn’t one of those shouting to close borders.

Don’t know what we’ll get- we might not be suitable, but we’ve put our hand up.

[JamJar]

When there was the massive exodus from Syria, people were closing their borders and doing their best to play pass the Syrian. All of a sudden we have a "let us help Ukraine" movement (and rightly so) but the people in Afghanistan are given a cold shoulder. Racism in refugee status is all to prevalent.

I would like to help a refugee, but do not have the space in my home, I have a vulnerable young teenage daughter as well. So my priorities are elsewhere in this regard, but I am working with the church to enable safe refuge and sanctuary, regardless of religion/race/origin.

No they weren't, people keep trotting this shit out all the time but Europe, especially Germany took nearly a million Syrian refugees.

[Mussels]

Putin is an arse, before you accuse me of being a Russian troll. But.... he wanted to JOIN NATO, we wouldnt let him, as without the Russian bogeyman, NATO had no purpose and all those lovely arms contracts....well, they would be ahrder to justify to the good ol' tax payer.

That's interesting, I hadn't heard that. It also seems to be missing a bit. Putin said he wanted an invite to NATO and was told to apply like everyone else, he didn't like that and didn't apply.

[Wreckless Rat]

Putin is an arse, before you accuse me of being a Russian troll. But.... he wanted to JOIN NATO, we wouldnt let him, as without the Russian bogeyman, NATO had no purpose and all those lovely arms contracts....well, they would be ahrder to justify to the good ol' tax payer.

That's interesting, I hadn't heard that. It also seems to be missing a bit. Putin said he wanted an invite to NATO and was told to apply like everyone else, he didn't like that and didn't apply.

Maybe, maybe not. But seeing how NATO was created to keep the Russian bogeyman away, it does seem sensible the leader of the bogeyman clan wanting to join should have been seen as a huge opportunity for world peace, and the lessening of nuclear arsenals etc. We should have grasped that opportunity with both hands, but didn't because.... *drum roll* arms contracts.

The West has created this mess, and in its usual manner has made the sheeple believe they are the innocent partys. Again we meddled with a foriegn country's government, helping to install a pro-EU leader (an ex comedian) promised him the earth and as soon as it blows up in his face, the west backs away while blaming it all on Putin. Poke the bear enough and eventually it will bite.

There was no need for NATO to expand post cold war, it should have taken the chance to get Russia in the club and mould greater world peace from there. It didn't, instead it expanded to his doorstep and then we are amaazed an horrified when he flips out and invades Ukraine. The USA wasnt too keen on Russia putting arms in Cuba... why would Russia be happy with the continual expansion of USA arms on its doorstep.

[Wreckless Rat]

The West has created this mess, and in its usual manner has made the sheeple believe they are the innocent partys. Again we meddled with a foriegn country's government, helping to install a pro-EU leader (an ex comedian) promised him the earth and as soon as it blows up in his face, the west backs away while blaming it all on Putin.

A pro-EU leader that armed criminal gangs and neo-Nazis to help hold onto power.

It was always going to end in bloody civil war or a descent into something akin to Somalia - Putin stepped in to try and stop it, but as always these foreign invasions don't usually work so well - especially when America decides it doesn't want it to.

Zero mention in the western media of the mass grave of civilians Russia uncovered in Donbas. Ukraine has plenty of blood on its hands.

[DefTrap]

So the UK finally gets it's own way to keep out the darkies and eastern european diddicoys by closing the borders.
And your man-of-the-people Farage regularly cheers on drownings in the Channel aided by stoney-faced Priti Nasty Patel, whilst Boris is looking the other way at his drinks party.

But those that want to help are the racists?

It's the least convincing bit of spin ever really innit?

[Wreckless Rat]

So the UK finally gets it's own way to keep out the darkies and eastern european diddicoys by closing the borders.
And your man-of-the-people Farage regularly cheers on drownings in the Channel aided by stoney-faced Priti Nasty Patel, whilst Boris is looking the other way at his drinks party.

But those that want to help are the racists?

It's the least convincing bit of spin ever really innit?

You’ve been at the sherry again….

[Wreckless Rat]

Zero mention in the western media of the mass grave of civilians Russia uncovered in Donbas. Ukraine has plenty of blood on its hands.

The mass graves thing has been going on for ages, with both sides pointing the finger at the other.
IIRC the Russians went to the European Court of Human Rights to try and get it resolved early last year, but no joy.

It's actual documented fact that the Ukrainian government forces tortured people back in the last conflict, bodies were recovered and verified by Amnesty IIRC.
Since then more criminal gangs and militias were armed and empowered, so no reason to think it stopped.

To be honest I didn't know much about it but I work with Ukrainians, so I asked them and they gave me a fairly unbiased potted history - none of them want to be Russian btw, I previously thought one was pro-Russian because he seemed anti-EU but he got annoyed when I said that - apparently you can be neither.

I'm not arguing just cause for an invasion, but if such a justification exists then Putin had at least as much justification as any of the western invasions/actions.

I'm far from pro-Putin but you have to wonder why the West has, yet again, helped cause a bigger issue. We will likely now fall back to another cold war, assuming this doesn't ramp up into full scale WW3 and the nuclear annihilation of us all. Who benefits from this? Oh yeah, those big old arms companies and the politicians in their pockets.

We scoff at Russias "controlled media" - when ours is no better; it just parrots the rhetoric from our lords and masters, with the same bias, the same exclusion of other angles. I don't trust Putin as far as I could throw him, but that said, I don't Boris, Biden et al either.

Let's be honest, the Western leaders only really care about Ukriane at all because of it's huge natural resources and it's another puppet to poke Russia with.

[JamJar]

No they weren't, people keep trotting this shit out all the time but Europe, especially Germany took nearly a million Syrian refugees.

I don't want to speak for him but I assumed he meant the UK, most people weren't too bothered about them drowning in the channel.

Imagine being one of the hundreds of unaccompanied non-Ukrainian refugee children, sitting in squalor in a refugee camp in France, watching hungrily as the Ukrainians walk past on their red carpet right over to freshly baked UK benefits and housing.

He might have been but his exact words where "people were closing their borders" which infers multiple countries and they are numerous countries that took refugees from Syria.

[Wreckless Rat]

My view on these superpower type 'wars', having met some of the leaders, is that they honestly don't know what it means, they come from privileged backgrounds and have never even had a smack in the mouth, let alone been shot at.

The Americans are the worst because they also have a massive god complex as well, they literally cannot comprehend being beaten, that's why their veterans have always had a hard time, because a disabled veteran is not a sign of victory - although now they turned them into heroes and it's a symbol of sacrifice for the nation.

I've been all over the world and shared food/drink with all sorts of people, I've rarely met anyone that I wanted to kill once I stopped believing the lies I'd grown up with.

We need to go back to the old way... with the country leader on the battlefield leading the charge... I bet there would be a lot fewer wars.