revtothelimit - motorbike forum

Dodgy knees wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:46 pm

Dodgy knees wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:58 am So what's the correct position over a crest, I'd guess middle of lane.

On the back wheel, throttle WFO

Demannu wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 2:16 pm So today went on another jaunt, we clocked up 100k floating around the french lanes.
Nothing to report, putting me forward for observation from all the mentors, so next stop, a blue badge

Does that mean you can park anywhere?

Le_Fromage_Grande wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 2:29 pm

Demannu wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 2:16 pm so next stop, a blue badge

Does that mean you can park anywhere?

Don't you kno yuore highway code? Thats what hazard lights is for. Usually.

Cousin Jack wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 2:23 pm
Make sure you order your BMW, pipe and slippers.

Does feel a bit GS/RT owners club!
Had my BMW phase several years ago, vowed never to buy another overrated over priced German bike again

Le_Fromage_Grande wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 2:29 pm Does that mean you can park anywhere?

It's France, we do anyway!

Sooooooo,.did a 4hr observed ride yesterday.
Absolutely barking route, everything from Mway to moss covered single track to freshly gravelled to some of the finest bends I have ever ridden.
His only comment was, 'observer test next then!'

Demannu wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:14 pm Sooooooo,.did a 4hr observed ride yesterday.
Absolutely barking route, everything from Mway to moss covered single track to freshly gravelled to some of the finest bends I have ever ridden.
His only comment was, 'observer test next then!'

Nice one. Must be doing something right.

Demannu wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:14 pm Sooooooo,.did a 4hr observed ride yesterday.
Absolutely barking route, everything from Mway to moss covered single track to freshly gravelled to some of the finest bends I have ever ridden.
His only comment was, 'observer test next then!'

This sounds like the IAM set-up, but you are in France. Do they have an equivalent there?

Scootabout wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:15 pm

Demannu wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:14 pm Sooooooo,.did a 4hr observed ride yesterday.
Absolutely barking route, everything from Mway to moss covered single track to freshly gravelled to some of the finest bends I have ever ridden.
His only comment was, 'observer test next then!'

This sounds like the IAM set-up, but you are in France. Do they have an equivalent there?

No they don't.
It's an 'advanced riding' group set up by some ex trafpol and an IAM guy who ran tours around the swiss Alps.
Weve had some IAM types come out with us but we do kind of play fast and loose with the speed limits on open roads, which generally upsets the pipe and slipper boys!
We tend to ride more advanced police style than pure IAM, as, no offence intended btw, the IAM tend to be by the numbers rather than intuitive (according to our head honcho, who was an IAM examiner btw)
Hopefully it makes us safer, smoother riders, which is the important bit!

Demannu wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:57 pm the IAM tend to be by the numbers rather than intuitive (according to our head honcho, who was an IAM examiner btw)

So, as an examiner he would have set the standard required to pass, that observers would have trained associates to

Horse wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:35 pm

Demannu wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:57 pm the IAM tend to be by the numbers rather than intuitive (according to our head honcho, who was an IAM examiner btw)

So, as an examiner he would have set the standard required to pass, that observers would have trained associates to

Setting the standard and writing the rules are completely different things.
He said that of 10 candidates, all of them could pass the test, but only a couple could really ride a bike well.
Like all tests, you are coached how to pass it.

Demannu wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:49 pm

Horse wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:35 pm

Demannu wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:57 pm the IAM tend to be by the numbers rather than intuitive (according to our head honcho, who was an IAM examiner btw)

So, as an examiner he would have set the standard required to pass, that observers would have trained associates to

Setting the standard and writing the rules are completely different things.
He said that of 10 candidates, all of them could pass the test, but only a couple could really ride a bike well.
Like all tests, you are coached how to pass it.

With most tests, the pass mark is rarely 100

Demannu wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:49 pm
Setting the standard and writing the rules are completely different things.

How so?

I'm genuinely struggling to understand what you mean.

Could you give an example?

As he was a policeman, his job was to enforce the law.
He had nothing to do with how those laws were created, but it was up to his judgement how to enforce those rules............bit like he didn't create the IAM rules or write 'Roadcraft', but was expected to grade people's riding under a given set of regs.

As an examiner, I'm fairly sure he would have had the opportunity to affect test standards (albeit he may not have wanted to).

If he thought the IAM test wasn't about 'riding well' then perhaps he should have influenced training content?

Horse wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:08 pm As an examiner, I'm fairly sure he would have had the opportunity to affect test standards (albeit he may not have wanted to).

If he thought the IAM test wasn't about 'riding well' then perhaps he should have influenced training content?

As an examiner, pretty sure he was told what was reqd and to look for, and if the candidate met those criteria, they passed.
Riding with trafpol 'off the leash' is an eye opening experience. I've done road safe when they follow you, but it's all a bit sterile as you have a serving officer behind you so you go into mother Theresa mode.
Pretty sure Nordboy would concur that when amongst themselves, they probably spend as much time on the wrong side of the road as the the correct.

Demannu wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:13 am As an examiner, pretty sure he was told what was reqd and to look for,

Is it really that authoritarian? I understood that examiners had meetings to discuss such things. His choice whether to speak up or not.

Demannu wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:13 am Riding with trafpol 'off the leash' is an eye opening experience.

And can be amusing. Like when following an unmarked car (driven by a copper I knew well), being driven 'progressively' - and see a cock-up of an overtake which relied on a member of the public to let him in.

Demannu wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:13 am Pretty sure Nordboy would concur that when amongst themselves, they probably spend as much time on the wrong side of the road as the the correct.

Allied with your point above, and depending on what you mean, there's usually not much to be gained doing it at lower speeds.

Just because your friend was a serving officer, doesn't mean he was a good driver.
As you are well aware they have different levels of proficiency, and they are human too.
I just let it rest that our main guy was in his time diplomatic escort, SIOTRAFPOL, motorcycle trainer/observer, pursuit trained etc.
He says the IAM is a good basis, but a little too mantra like.

Demannu wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:27 pm Just because your friend was a serving officer, doesn't mean he was a good driver.

Anyone, 'good' or otherwise, can make mistakes. And I did wonder how much grief he had from the sergeant who was sat alongside.

FWIW he was a Met class 1 cars and bikes and, later, a driving assessor.

Demannu wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:27 pm He says the IAM is a good basis, but a little too mantra like.

Everyone has to start somewhere.

I got the impression, from the observed rides I did and the stuff I read, that there are two potentially contradictory messages in IAM training: 1. "We want you to be a thinking rider"; 2. "In this situation, do this". The better observers seemed to emphasise the former, the more by-the-book ones the latter.