revtothelimit - motorbike forum

I went riding & set the race to record. I'd watched up to the red flag & then buggered off. I have it set to record an extra 60 minutes in case of red flag delays etc.
Get home later in the day, sit down to watch the race (even though I knew the results etc).... & the 60 minute extra recording stopped half way round the final lap.... arsebiscuits. It's being aired again on July 30th... Won't bother.

Mate, you really need to stop. If that's not a gap that a racing driver should be in then everyone needs to pack up and go home.

It was a racing incident and, in reality, an inch or two given by either driver would have avoided any contact, the judgment by the stewards was that Hamilton was "predominantly to blame" (suggesting not wholly culpable) and they elected to give the second most lenient punishment (suggesting a fairly minor aberration). I'm no Hamilton fanboi but I would hate to see such attempts at overtaking legislated out of existence - the most memorable championships have always had fierce rivalry and the slight contact made by Hamilton pale into insignificance when you consider Senna/Prost, Schumacher/Hill or even Mansell/Piquet.

Screwdriver wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:55 am

lostboy wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:30 am Mate, you really need to stop. If that's not a gap that a racing driver should be in then everyone needs to pack up and go home.

Read my post above again and tell me where I suggest otherwise.

Hamilton clearly went for a move that was not going to be possible. He should have backed out rather than ram into the championship leader.

That wasn't clear at all.

If you're such a fan boy of F1 and what to tell us what is and isn't possible (from the rest of your post) why didn't Max keep his foot in it and stay around the outside - as Alonso did to Vettel in 2014 one of the best overtakes ever seen in F1?

Max turned in and created the problem. He wanted to be play the macho game and lost. He's done it plenty of times and won - not this time.

So in summary - you're a fan of Max, who isn't as good a driver as Alonso because he managed to get all the way around the outside of Vettel with no issues in 2014 and without turning in and you're not a fan of Lewis, who put his car where a racer should and got turned in on.

@Screwdriver You're in a minority of one. Just check the 'likes'. Give it up.

You've had countless reasons given why your analysis is flawed, but you choose to ignore them or regard them as invalid. Your irrational dislike of Hamilton is blinding you to any other conclusion than the one you are promoting.

@mangocrazy he’s trying to wear everyone down by droning on and on and on…….

Incidentally Max’s desperate lunge to be in front/bully Lewis looks to have cost RB £1.3 million.

Yeah, the 'if you can't beat them with logic and reason, just bore the fuckers to death' approach.

I seem to recall that earlier in the season Merc suffered a mishap to one of their cars (Bottas's I think), which effectively wrote it off and cost Merc a similar sum. But Wolff didn't go bleating to the media and trying to use it as a reason to get the other driver (Russell?) banned or suspended. Horner is becoming Mr Whiney Git..

mangocrazy wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:32 pm @Screwdriver You're in a minority of one. Just check the 'likes'. Give it up.

TBF he's not...the FIA (who include F1 drivers on their panel don't forget) clearly thought Hamilton was in the wrong too.

From my POV this is just racing. If Hamilton had made it stick it'd have been lauded as a great move.

Easy fellas.

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:59 am

mangocrazy wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:32 pm @Screwdriver You're in a minority of one. Just check the 'likes'. Give it up.

TBF he's not...the FIA (who include F1 drivers on their panel don't forget) clearly thought Hamilton was in the wrong too.

From my POV this is just racing. If Hamilton had made it stick it'd have been lauded as a great move.

In the current state of F1, it appears that there has to be 'fault' whenever an incident such as this occurs, even when most commentators feel that it was simply a racing incident. I agree - the whole incident looks suspiciously just like racing to me. Check out Jolyon Palmer's detailed analysis of the incident on Youtube. He ultimately classes it as a racing incident.

If the panel thought it was any way intentional, or LH was seriously at fault then the penalty would have been far more severe. The light nature of the penalty indicates that it takes two to tango, but Max was the one who suffered. So Lewis gets a token penalty.

The problem occurs when emotive language is used; i.e. "Hamilton was clearly fouled by Max when Lewis divebombed the corner and rammed Max off the track at 160mph". There was no divebombing, Max was not rammed off the track, it was a light touch of LH's front left wheel on MV's right rear, but at those speeds everything is magnified. It was basically two drivers on the limit, beither of whom were going to back down. A racing incident.

Lewis didn’t cause the accident, he was significantly alongside Max when Max dived across, it was first lap elbows out racing. Max was expecting Lewis to bottle it but for once the on track bully found that someone wasn’t about to submit to him.

Max is, by some margin, the most aggressive driver on the grid. All the drivers know that. This time his aggression in turning in on LH when he should have left space was his undoing. LH has often ceded ground to MV in earlier races this year to avoid a collision, something that MV would have been very aware of. This time Lewis left his car where it was and Max turned in on him, with the ensuing results. This time karma bit Max in the arse. He needs to reflect on his attitude, but I doubt he will.

Totally disagree, Lewis wasn't performing some Hail Mary manoeuvre coming from miles back, Max knew he was there, significantly alongside, but chose to try and take the corner as if he wasn't there in an attempt to put a hard aggressive pass and assert dominance, Lewis wasn't backing down and a racing incident occurred with two top drivers fighting for position.

Screwdriver wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:22 pm Well then we have to agree to disagree because quite unarguably, Lewis' manoeuvre did not work.

I am liking the "significantly alongside" euphemism. It is growing on me and I can see how from your perspective it is a much more useful phrase than the simple truth that Lewis was attempting to overtake, mid bend, offline, up the inside of a high speed corner, from behind.

Out of interest and speaking of euphemisms, what exactly is a "Hail Mary"? "Send it" and be damned? Try something hugely risky and hope it all works out? Be interested to hear what your definition of a "Hail Mary" is because a bit like "divebombing" it is a fairly loose term and might even apply in this case.

Let's not forget, Lewis hit Max's' rear wheel with his front, mid bend up the inside. When he punted him off he wasn't even "significantly alongside" he was half a car behind. No one is arguing against that I hope.

Lewis’s manoeuvre did work

I would counter that Max hit Lewis with his aggressive turn in knowing full well Lewis was there and hoping that he’d bully Lewis out of the way.

Screwdriver wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:42 pm Lewis was in fact, found to be predominantly at fault. I disagree in that I believe it was entirely Hamiltons fault and I say that because I appreciate the skill these drivers all have is at another level to mere humans. Lewis could have avoided that collision if he had not strayed to the left in an attempt to block Max from turing right. It is racing yes but Hamilton got it wrong big time. His mistake, Max paid for it, big time.

Lewis did not stray to the left. He simply held his line. Max decided to turn in on LH and paid the price. Max's error, but one that was severely punished. This does sometimes happen, you know.

Screwdriver wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:42 pmMax left Hamilton a cars width which is required under sporting regulations, Hamilton took two. Hamilton is pretty much in the centre of the track albeit still way off line and too hot. Max took the racing line after giving H enough room which he is entitled to do since he is ahead and the attacking driver does not "have the corner".

Eventually Max does actually have to turn right you know. He can't just disappear.

Hamilton could not 'take two' widths because Max was holding the middle of the track down the preceding stright. LH had the option of going for the outside or the inside; he chose the inside, where there was only a little more than a car's width. LH was never in the 'middle of the track' - he couldn't be, because that was where Max was. Your dislike of LH has clearly affected your vision. Max had the choice to continue on his arc or turn in and hit LH if he didn't yield. LH didn't yield, Max turned in anyway and there was (predictably) contact.

Screwdriver wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:42 pmNB Behind = "almost alongside", "significantly alongside", "nearly level" these are all euphemisms for "behind". The driver in front gets to choose his line, the driver behind does not get to choose it for him.

You need to get yourself a good dictionary. 'Behind' means to the rear of or following the driver in front. Max and Lewis were partially or significantly alongside, which changes everything. I understand why you don't accept the validity of these terms - if you did it blows your whole argument apart.

Screwdriver wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:42 pmNo one has addressed the most obvious point that Hamilton was so far offline on the inside of the track he could not hope to maintain overspeed on Max and therefore had no chance to go past Max before the apex. He would have to slow down anyway. Max knew he could maintain his speed, on the racing line and that Hamilton had plenty of room on the inside.

Lewis was not offline. Just go and watch Jolyon Palmer's analysis on Youtube (someone infinitely better qualified to pronounce than you or I) and then come back. The difference this time around was that LH did not back off to avoid a collision, as he had done so many times previously this season. This time he held his line, did not back off and awaited the consequences. Max assumed that Lewis would cede the corner (as he had done every time previously) and turned in. Whether he expected Lewis would back off or whether he was going to do it anyway we can't know. But by making that decision he essentially put himself out of the race.

Screwdriver wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:42 pmI would have been much happier to see some honesty and an apology from Lewis. He's not man enough for that it would appear and his vacuous personality (of the year) sounds more like a legal disclaimer. A bit more authenticity would go a long way.

We get it. You really don't like Lewis.

Screwdriver wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 5:24 pm

MingtheMerciless wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 4:29 pm I would counter that Max hit Lewis with his aggressive turn in knowing full well Lewis was there and hoping that he’d bully Lewis out of the way.

Yes you would, you might also suggest Mike Tyson head butted Frank Bruno on the fist.

I have no idea what your going on about but I’m guessing it’s an insult so I’ll just say your wrong and leave this here.

I see M-B went for plan b today,.get Bottas to take out both red bulls, inspired!