revtothelimit - motorbike forum

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Wed Jul 26, 2023 8:59 am Yeah even after I typed that I realised I probably should have used the word "should" not "will"

The trouble is, every little slip of the tyre that happens as the ABS releases will follow the course of momentum. And momentum ALWAYS goes straight on unless a force deflects it.

It also matters which order you do it in of course - Brake->Turn or Turn->Brake....if you're already cornering hard and you grab the anchors s'not like the ABS can magic up more grip.

Which is another reason going into bends with something in hand is a good idea... you may be able to steer upright THEN hit the brakes hard.

Screwdriver wrote: Mon Jul 31, 2023 10:45 pm

slowhare wrote: Tue Jul 25, 2023 9:30 pm Neevsie from MCN fame just covered this and said he also uses a touch of rear (to settle the suspension). He also added it isn’t really a road trick as you’d have to be hooning it for it to be of any benefit, which would be illegal under current speed restrictions, and nobody here hoons on the road, do they? I don’t, my hooning days are now well behind me.

Got a link to that article?

Remember it's not just high speed that use of the rear brake can control, try doing some feet up U turns.

Covered in the latest FortNine video (and umpteen Joe Paladino vids before)

The Spin Doctor wrote: Fri Jul 28, 2023 12:54 pm The generally accepted rule is that you set your speed so that you can stop before you reach the furthest point you can see.

Guaranteed to cause a kerfuffle in 'advanced' circles is 'stop within the distance you can see is clear [1] on your side of the road [2] and expect to remain so[3]'

3 is the 'surprise horizon', the nearest point where something can potentially emerge to get you.

Edit to add some pics, views from either end of a corner

Working back from the furthest:
4. Pile of cones is the traditional 'where the verges meet' limit point
3. Cone on centre line is maximum braking distance within 'your' lane
2. The 'surprise horizon', nearside verge
1. Cone closer on centre line is 'view' riding position





And the view from around the corner, looking back, shows the 'invisible' junction where someone could emerge into your stopping distance ('3').

Excellent sequence of photos, and explains why even someone not hooning NEEDS to know how to brake mid-corner.

The Spin Doctor wrote: Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:28 pm Excellent sequence of photos, and explains why even someone not hooning NEEDS to know how to brake mid-corner.

A couple more.

Bright red = limit point (far side intersects with nearside hedge)

Orange = distance you can see to be clear on your side (i.e. theoretical maximum stopping distance)

Yellow = surprise horizon

Dark red = where something emerging from hidden might obstruct you (ie actual maximum stopping distance)



Umpteen opportunities to be surprised before you reach the furthest distance you can see to be clear on your side.

You would hope that before that corner there was a sign, stating there was a junction just around the bend

It's why the white lines are longer I'm assuming?

Long white lines/short gaps is meant to indicate a (non specific?) Hazard.

I'm guessing they're like Chevron signs though, in that the rules about applying them are ill defined?

Deadpool2 wrote: Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:08 pm You would hope that before that corner there was a sign, stating there was a junction just around the bend

Of course, the sign only tells you the junction is there, it cannot prevent the vehicle pulling out from behind the hedge because the driver can't see you.

This is exactly the rational where if you were riding in France approaching the mirror image of that junction, the junction would almost certainly be flagged up as Priorite a Droit so you don't just pile round expecting Superman to be holding back having spotted you using his X-ray vision.

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:53 pm It's why the white lines are longer I'm assuming?

Long white lines/short gaps is meant to indicate a (non specific?) Hazard.

I'm guessing they're like Chevron signs though, in that the rules about applying them are ill defined?

There's a handy guide book to road design, written by the Institute of Incorporated Highway Engineers - or some such title... I have a copy.

The rule's simple enough - if someone may have to slow down or change direction, it's a hazard.

If there's a hazard, there's a hazard line... if the road's wide enough.

The chevrons go in where people fail to negotiate bends - next time you're out, have a look at the number that have been flattened. If a bend warning sign says "you're liable to crash here - others have in the past", then the chevron tells you exactly where you should crash.

Deadpool2 wrote: Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:08 pm You would hope that before that corner there was a sign, stating there was a junction just around the bend

In the first set of pictures, I don't think there was. But it was a private, closed off, car park - which is why I was able to leave cones all over the place!

In the 'coloured lines' pic, there isn't a junction. But until you travel further along, you can't know. Also, there might be a house entrance, farm track, field gate, anything like that.

Or someone might have crashed into the sign and it's not been replaced.

Somehow, someone had flattened a 'left bend with junction to the right' sign on one of my training routes... the junction was almost impossible to spot until you were on top of it, and it was one of those that drivers used to shoot out of, having failed to notice that the straight road ahead actually had a GIVE WAY in the middle of it. I've made that mistake myself - I really hate those junctions. It took about five years for the sign to be replaced.

This is probably the most convincing of the pro- videos I've seen.

If you don't want to watch all 15 minutes or so, with justification, etc., FF to:
14:00 the process
14:45 three situations

The three are:
1. Blind corner ("You're likely to be trail braking")
2. Greater than 90° and you can't see the exit
3. Downhill curves

With the note: "maintaining a little bit of load ... if you're going slow you may just have the brake light on, you're taking the slack out of the lever"
.