Discussion within the US politics thread. Section closed. What to do with 'Current affairs/Politics' forum debate.

[moth]

Moth and I take the opportunity to post politely.....

Moth haz the politeness now?

I'm mellowing in me old age, you cocksucker

[Hoonercat]

Shame that it's come to this, the vast majority of the discussions there were without problem. Given that the world has been a bit mental over the past 4 years (Trump, Brexit, Covid) which naturally brings out some very polarized views, I think the section was bimbling along pretty well other than a couple of posters who had a knack of winding others up. Most of the posters in that section are old skool, right back from the days of VD and it would be a shame to lose them.
Trump's on his way out, Brexit is all but done and a vaccine is just round the corner, alot of that discussion is coming to it's natural end anyway.
BTW you missed a bit, it's ended up in Staying Alive.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1322

[weeksy]

Thank you for spotting it.

I agree 100% it's a shame. I/we are never going to please everyone and this place being different to trc may be it's demise, but may save it too.

I hope

[Saga Lout]

Might there be some virtue in all meeting up in real life for a fight?

We* could sell the tickets. This time next year, Rodney, we'll* be millionaires.


When I say "we", I mean "I".

[Saga Lout]

...

The politics section didn't once show me anything good, no one said "yeah that's a good and fair point, I'll change my mind"

...

That wasn't the point. It's never been the point of political discussion.

“That one can convince one’s opponents with printed reasons, I have not believed since the year 1764. It is not for that purpose that I have taken up my pen, but rather merely to annoy them, and to give strength and courage to those on our side, and to make it known to the others that they have not convinced us.” G.C. Lichtenberg (1742 – 1799)

[weeksy]

You know what guys, i've had enough. Well i'd had enough back when we first had this discussion but now i've really really had enough.

The digs, the bitching, the "no you're stupid, you can't see", " no i'm right, you're wrong"

I just can't be arsed.

So consider the politics off the subject allowed list on RTTL forum.

You can talk about most things in general from what way you like your breaded products to who makes the best pyramids and my dog has eaten the car spare wheel but i don't want to go to the vet.

There's no discussion here, there won't be thread locks, there won't be warnings for now, the thread/post will be deleted, simple as that, no debate, no discussion.

Since we first had this debate the forum has moved on leaps and bounds in terms of context, both motorbike related and general mayhem related, i feel it can now self-sustain content without the rubbish that comes with it.

We'll see if i'm right or wrong, but i'll live by the sword and die by the sword.

Any questions... .feel free to PM me, but i won't be changing my opinion on this. If you don't like the decision, take your shit and leave. If you feel that's unfair and want a refund on your subscription fees, again, PM me and i'll refund you then disable that account.

Lets see how this goes hey

BTW, i think this is a bloody marvelous forum we're creating here, so don't think for a single second i'm unhappy with you lot, you're all superstars !

[Gimlet]

Good decision. Too many forums ruined by tribal politics shit. And once someone sniffs out a political allegiance they can't stand the resentment spills over into every thread the other posts on and the trolling imp is out of the bottle and never goes back in.
If you can't have a dispassionate debate (and few can) leave it alone.

[Docca]

I think one of the issues here is middle/older aged men complaining to moderators. There has been nothing overtly warranting that reaction, so if it’s just that people disagree with a point of view or that they don’t care for the likely overspill of emotions- then we are squarely into nanny state territory.

If you don’t understand that entering into trigger-point debates such as politics will result in robust views that you may not agree with, then that’s your loss. Stop being so petty.

I firmly believe I have the right to be offended. Some of the views I simply won’t agree with, but I respect their right to be stupid. Some of the most heated discussions have spilled out into friendships etc. There are limits of course, but it seems that some of the readership have an incredibly low tolerance threshold. Or a desire to censor views that don’t align with their own.

If you are genuinely submitting reports on other posters, ask yourself why? Then grow up.

[weeksy]

Doesn't matter, the discussions are over. They're not happening any more. Who, what, why, i really don't care any more.

I agree with some of your points, but the politics discussions are done on here.

As it happens, yesterday was a busy day with reports and PMs which was the catalyst for my decision yes, not going to deny that. But won't get into details of who or what.

[Saga Lout]

I think one of the issues here is middle/older aged men complaining to moderators.

Not this old man.

There has been nothing overtly warranting that reaction, so if it’s just that people disagree with a point of view or that they don’t care for the likely overspill of emotions- then we are squarely into nanny state territory.

If you don’t understand that entering into trigger-point debates such as politics will result in robust views that you may not agree with, then that’s your loss. Stop being so petty.

I firmly believe I have the right to be offended. Some of the views I simply won’t agree with, but I respect their right to be stupid. Some of the most heated discussions have spilled out into friendships etc. There are limits of course, but it seems that some of the readership have an incredibly low tolerance threshold. Or a desire to censor views that don’t align with their own.

If you are genuinely submitting reports on other posters, ask yourself why? Then grow up.

Hear, hear.

Not only do I believe you have the right to be offended, I also believe I have the right to offend you?

[weeksy]

Not only do I believe you have the right to be offended, I also believe I have the right to offend you?

Go for it... Let us all know the forum and we'll come and join.

Without sounding too harsh here, you've not even paid a subscription and are sitting here using the forum FoC that other people are paying for maintaining/updating and supporting... Whilst i'm not forcing people to subscribe and i'm not using adverts either, i can't help but care a bit less when people who don't support the forum start telling me i'm doing it wrong.

[Yambo]

I think one of the issues here is middle/older aged men complaining to moderators. There has been nothing overtly warranting that reaction, so if it’s just that people disagree with a point of view or that they don’t care for the likely overspill of emotions- then we are squarely into nanny state territory.

LOL! Just about everybody on here is middle/older aged men, you included.

Personally I'd like to know who is doing the reporting/complaining to moderators. I think it would raise a few laughs and maybe a few eyebrows.

[weeksy]

I think one of the issues here is middle/older aged men complaining to moderators. There has been nothing overtly warranting that reaction, so if it’s just that people disagree with a point of view or that they don’t care for the likely overspill of emotions- then we are squarely into nanny state territory.

LOL! Just about everybody on here is middle/older aged men, you included.

Personally I'd like to know who is doing the reporting/complaining to moderators. I think it would raise a few laughs and maybe a few eyebrows.

No.

[Yambo]

I think one of the issues here is middle/older aged men complaining to moderators. There has been nothing overtly warranting that reaction, so if it’s just that people disagree with a point of view or that they don’t care for the likely overspill of emotions- then we are squarely into nanny state territory.

LOL! Just about everybody on here is middle/older aged men, you included.

Personally I'd like to know who is doing the reporting/complaining to moderators. I think it would raise a few laughs and maybe a few eyebrows.

No.

I guess you're worried they'd complain.

[weeksy]

LOL! Just about everybody on here is middle/older aged men, you included.

Personally I'd like to know who is doing the reporting/complaining to moderators. I think it would raise a few laughs and maybe a few eyebrows.

No.

I guess you're worried they'd complain.

NAh mate, it's just not right. Everyone has their right to privacy, people are allowed to report whatever they want without reprisal or without anyone else ever knowing.

[Tricky]

Good decision. Too many forums ruined by tribal politics shit. And once someone sniffs out a political allegiance they can't stand the resentment spills over into every thread the other posts on and the trolling imp is out of the bottle and never goes back in.
If you can't have a dispassionate debate (and few can) leave it alone.

Completely disagree with that, it's all just a bit over-dramatic for me, and the forum will undoubtedly be poorer for this decision IMO.

As far as I can see looking back down the threads, the individuals that I am guessing are either directly or indirectly the main cause of the latest apparent knee-jerk reaction (what happened to the poll on the subject?) here that I could see are :

1. Saint Savio, AKA Docca- no matter how hard he tries (and from what I saw, he was being a very good boy for quite a while here) , he can't keep his obvious hatred for certain politicians and his often quite unpleasant personal insults in check ,and he had to start letting it out sooner or later- what I saw was mild IMO, but it looked to me that it was probably the straw that broke the camel's back and fucked it up for the rest of us- If it was, thanks Mate

2. Potter, AKA Iccy- A master at the art of goading people, and it can definitely be entertaining to watch. He has Docca's measure and that get's right up Docca's nose, as can be seen. Also provides value content on the motor-bikey stuff.

3. Moth, AKA Moth. Big fan and supporter of Saint Savio with, on the face it, very similar politics, but overall mainly just a curmudgeonly old fecker who I suspect (but don't know) could benefit from riding or fiddling with a motorbike a bit more, and getting cross about things a bit less.

4. DEADPOOL - Has views that differ from the majority here on the face of it, but puts his/her views across in a reasonably eloquent way and I haven't seen him/her attacking or insulting anyone, but does seem to provoke strong reactions in quite a few people. Also provides other non-political) interesting content.

5. Saga Lout- Could be cited as a cause of the mild exchange I saw between Docca and Potter, certainly got one or two people's backs up by the look of it, always seems to be around when there's a scrap but a bit of an innocent bystander in this and not a baddie at all as far as I can see

As I've said before I'm obviously missing something here, but I just don't get it.
Posting potentially libelous or other banned or unacceptable content is one thing ( I haven't seen any of that here yet) and that has to be quickly dealt with , but If grown men or women want to disagree with each other, trade mild insults, or send whiney " Miss, that person's being horrid / talking bollocks" PMs, big fucking deal, who cares - they either get ignored or banned depending upon how serious it's deemed to be.
If it were my forum, I certainly wouldn't be wasting my time replying to whiney PMs, I'd post the rules somewhere everyone can see, spelling out the policy ( as Weeksy has done) , and then just delete or ban away if needed-no replies or discussion, them's the rules. I don't understand why it can't be made that simple and why so much emotion has to enter into it- it's only a discussion forum.

But, most importantly I don't think this decision is workable in practice.
If I, for instance, were to go into the Portimao track day thread, say that I was canceling as a direct result of the new quarantine rules, and either I or someone else comments how ridiculous and/or out of proportion they think the penalties and/or Matt Hancock's "stop at nothing" comment was, then under the new rules that post (and possibly this one I guess, despite me using the subjunctive ) would be removed?

Anyway, I hope at least one or two people get to see this before it's deleted, and if they do it makes them smile and not angry, as I'm definitely not trying to provoke anyone, just give my view on the subject FWIW- and Weeksy- I know you've said that's it, but not worth a rethink?

[weeksy]

Anyway, I hope at least one or two people get to see this before it's deleted, and if they do it makes them smile and not angry, as I'm definitely not trying to provoke anyone, just give my view on the subject FWIW- and Weeksy- I know you've said that's it, but not worth a rethink?

Ask me again in several weeks/months fella.

I'm not going to sit here and say people HAVE to agree with me on this.... That's not the case. But that's how it's going to be and i'll either thrive as a forum or die as a forum because of it. Time will tell.

[Tricky]

[weeksy]

But, most importantly I don't think this decision is workable in practice.
If I, for instance, were to go into the Portimao track day thread, say that I was canceling as a direct result of the new quarantine rules, and either I or someone else comments how ridiculous and/or out of proportion they think the penalties and/or Matt Hancock's "stop at nothing" comment was, then under the new rules that post (and possibly this one I guess, despite me using the subjunctive ) would be removed?

I'm going to pick this one point, because i do agree it's going to be a bit of a farce at times. Would that comment get deleted, i'd say no, because it's in direct relation to a particular thing rather than being a political rantette, it's part of a subject that in this instance is being moved/affected by the current situation.

But this will end up being slightly down to interpretation by myself and the other Mods, some we'll get right, some we'll get wrong. We'll all make mistakes in threads, arguably me more than most... possibly even in this thread.

But i'll keep harping on with the same lines, i'm trying to build a community, i'm not just trying to build TRC rebooted, i am trying to build something MORE than that here, i'm trying to build a place for new people to come and be part of. I'm not convinced a bunch of people ranting about politics will being anything other than more people wanting to rant about politics, that's why we have motorbike discussions, to try and encourage motorbike discussions, that's where we all came from, how we all became mates, virtually or IRL, because of our love of bikes.

[Saga Lout]

Not only do I believe you have the right to be offended, I also believe I have the right to offend you?

Without sounding too harsh here, you've not even paid a subscription and are sitting here using the forum FoC that other people are paying for maintaining/updating and supporting... Whilst i'm not forcing people to subscribe and i'm not using adverts either, i can't help but care a bit less when people who don't support the forum start telling me i'm doing it wrong.

I paid my subscription to TRC for about 10 years. One of the things I disliked about TRC was the ability of thread starters to delete threads. I was on the point of subscribing here when you deleted a whole forum, one that I was enjoying a lot. But, as others have said: your gaff, your rules. However, to allow me to use it without a subscription then throw that in my face when I make my opinion known is somewhat contrary.

Here's a thought: The people who subscribe probably subscribe because they think you're already doing it right, so why wouldn't you want to know the opinions of people who think you're doing it wrong? I don't think you're doing it all that wrong, by the way*, otherwise I wouldn't still be here, but surely you don't want an echo chamber.


* Except in the way that everybody thinks the boss is doing it wrong. You know, all the people down the pub who think Gareth Southgate or Eddie Jones are doing it wrong. If we were running the England team we'd win the World Cup every time. It's such a shame our talents have been ignored.