That looks basically the same as the Jetprime carbon box I linked. With their tuned trumpets and injector kit the price goes over $3500. I'd be interested in having Felix's details.
The SF frame is exactly the same as the 1098 SBK. Don't know how it compares to the 999 or the 999 tank. I'm pretty sure the SF tank is bigger. Mine's knackered anyway. It's stretched. I wonder if a steel 999 tank could be fitted like you've done?
You sparked my interest in getting the SF sorted out (it's been off the road for a long time). If I win the lottery you could have started a Ducati fettling trend.
Ducati Multistretta 1098S
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millemille
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Re: Ducati Multistretta 1098S
http://www.2moto.co.uk/Gimlet wrote: ↑Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:03 pm That looks basically the same as the Jetprime carbon box I linked. With their tuned trumpets and injector kit the price goes over $3500. I'd be interested in having Felix's details.
The SF frame is exactly the same as the 1098 SBK. Don't know how it compares to the 999 or the 999 tank. I'm pretty sure the SF tank is bigger. Mine's knackered anyway. It's stretched. I wonder if a steel 999 tank could be fitted like you've done?
You sparked my interest in getting the SF sorted out (it's been off the road for a long time). If I win the lottery you could have started a Ducati fettling trend.
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Le_Fromage_Grande
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G.P
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Re: Ducati Multistretta 1098S
I know Richard at Louigi Moto was getting Ducati TT2 tanks done for around £600 from a guy in Wales - it was in batches of 3 and he supplied the former / dolly (the wooden shape) to him, which obviously cost money to make in the first place, and they are a relatively simple shape.millemille wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:53 pmThey're busy fools then.....Julian_Boolean wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 3:27 pmThe Z1100R one was definitely made in the UK, in Essex to be precise, but the quote was more of an estimate and was about a year ago, but a Z1100R tank is pretty much a big box with a tunnel underneath.
The GS1000 tank, I don't know where it was being made, Norfolk would be my guess, but it was for sale at £450, I think it was part of a batch of tanks that were made, if that makes any difference, but again compared with a modern bike fuel tank, a simple shape.
Loving your thread, its a whole new level of bonkers! thanks for posting
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Lutin
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Re: Ducati Multistretta 1098S
Could not have put it better myself.
Brilliant stuff. Great determination and deep pockets too.........
Blundering about trying not to make too much of a hash of things.
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millemille
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Re: Ducati Multistretta 1098S
I didn't start this thread with the intention of it turning into a debate about the costs of aluminium tank fabrication but, as it appears to be heading that way, let's go with it....
With the exception of a few pbmagforum members who are also on here I don't know who anyone else actually is, and you don't know much, if anything, about me. Unless the rustling I've been hearing in the hedge out the front for the last few nights isn't a hedgehog?
I run an engineering company; a legitimate engineering company with a factory premises, with plant and equipment, with staff, paying rent, paying rates, paying for property insurance, paying for public liability and professional indemnity insurance and so on. So I have a fair idea of what it costs to open the doors of a business before you even do any work
I'm a chartered mechanical engineer; started on the tools as an apprentice in the REME and worked my way up, worked in the rail industry for nearly 30 years (apart from a brief mid-life crisis when I had a fish and chip shop) and been working on motorbikes for 30 or more years, did several years in the BSB and WSB paddock as a product support technician and - as this thread hopefully shows - believe I have a better than average understanding of the detail of fabricating an aluminium fuel tank. What the processes are and how long they take.
One of the things to understand is that you cannot - if you are at all concerned about safety and reliability - simply replicate a steel OEM tank in aluminium. Particularly if it being hand formed*. It doesn't matter how simple the original shape is, it needs careful thought as to how to ensure the container of many litres of flammable liquid sitting over the top of hot engine doesn't fail and incinerate bike and rider. 1050 aluminium, "pure" aluminium, used when hand forming the skin has bugger all strength in the material. The steel tank's structural strength principally comes from the material used in the skin, a hand formed aluminium tank design needs to recognise that the skin now has a fraction of the strength. I've seen poorly thought out aluminium tanks buckle in the knee pockets simply by the rider gripping the tank between the knees when braking hard.
There's a reason why people and companies like Chris Ambler, ETTO** and AP metalcraft charge what they charge. It's because they're legitimate businesses, doing a proper job, producing carefully thought out designs based on sound engineering and proven expertise.
Someone working from their home, someone doing it as a hobby or 2nd job, not a registered business, not having product liability insurance, not putting the needed thought and effort into the design and fabrication and massively undercutting those with a pedigree in the field, is that really who you want making a container to hold flammable liquid over the top of a hot engine between your knees?
*I did give serious thought to making a CNC'd tank from solid billet, in the way that top flight racing frames are made. 3D scan the original tank and then machine the top and bottom of the tank and weld it together. It would be a lot stronger, you would use 6082 T-6 for the material, and it probably wouldn't be "that" expensive. 6082 billet is about 3 pence per cubic centimetre - although material prices are going up due to shortages as a result of coronavirus - and you'd need about a grands worth of billet. Then it's converting the 3D scan point data to a CAD file and design the inner profile, convert that to the CAM machine tool path and then it's machine time. I didn't go ahead with it was just a bit too novel to be trying with my own money
**my problems with ETTO have nothing to do with the quality of his work, it's his business practises.
With the exception of a few pbmagforum members who are also on here I don't know who anyone else actually is, and you don't know much, if anything, about me. Unless the rustling I've been hearing in the hedge out the front for the last few nights isn't a hedgehog?
I run an engineering company; a legitimate engineering company with a factory premises, with plant and equipment, with staff, paying rent, paying rates, paying for property insurance, paying for public liability and professional indemnity insurance and so on. So I have a fair idea of what it costs to open the doors of a business before you even do any work
I'm a chartered mechanical engineer; started on the tools as an apprentice in the REME and worked my way up, worked in the rail industry for nearly 30 years (apart from a brief mid-life crisis when I had a fish and chip shop) and been working on motorbikes for 30 or more years, did several years in the BSB and WSB paddock as a product support technician and - as this thread hopefully shows - believe I have a better than average understanding of the detail of fabricating an aluminium fuel tank. What the processes are and how long they take.
One of the things to understand is that you cannot - if you are at all concerned about safety and reliability - simply replicate a steel OEM tank in aluminium. Particularly if it being hand formed*. It doesn't matter how simple the original shape is, it needs careful thought as to how to ensure the container of many litres of flammable liquid sitting over the top of hot engine doesn't fail and incinerate bike and rider. 1050 aluminium, "pure" aluminium, used when hand forming the skin has bugger all strength in the material. The steel tank's structural strength principally comes from the material used in the skin, a hand formed aluminium tank design needs to recognise that the skin now has a fraction of the strength. I've seen poorly thought out aluminium tanks buckle in the knee pockets simply by the rider gripping the tank between the knees when braking hard.
There's a reason why people and companies like Chris Ambler, ETTO** and AP metalcraft charge what they charge. It's because they're legitimate businesses, doing a proper job, producing carefully thought out designs based on sound engineering and proven expertise.
Someone working from their home, someone doing it as a hobby or 2nd job, not a registered business, not having product liability insurance, not putting the needed thought and effort into the design and fabrication and massively undercutting those with a pedigree in the field, is that really who you want making a container to hold flammable liquid over the top of a hot engine between your knees?
*I did give serious thought to making a CNC'd tank from solid billet, in the way that top flight racing frames are made. 3D scan the original tank and then machine the top and bottom of the tank and weld it together. It would be a lot stronger, you would use 6082 T-6 for the material, and it probably wouldn't be "that" expensive. 6082 billet is about 3 pence per cubic centimetre - although material prices are going up due to shortages as a result of coronavirus - and you'd need about a grands worth of billet. Then it's converting the 3D scan point data to a CAD file and design the inner profile, convert that to the CAM machine tool path and then it's machine time. I didn't go ahead with it was just a bit too novel to be trying with my own money
**my problems with ETTO have nothing to do with the quality of his work, it's his business practises.
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weeksy
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millemille
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Re: Ducati Multistretta 1098S
Fuck yeah! I forgot about that. What with the lockdown and everything I've not done any kids parties for ages....
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millemille
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Re: Ducati Multistretta 1098S
Anyway, lecture over....
The most important decision has yet to be made.
What colour to paint it. The panels are mish-mash of colours right now.....
I'm pretty sure the tank is going to be in bare aluminium, clear lacquered or powder coated, like the top end Pani's are now. But the frame and panels need to be painted.
Originally pearl white panels and gun metal frame, keeping this is one option.
Another is red frame and pearl white panels.
Another is black frame, to match the wheels, and red panels.
I don't know....
The most important decision has yet to be made.
What colour to paint it. The panels are mish-mash of colours right now.....
I'm pretty sure the tank is going to be in bare aluminium, clear lacquered or powder coated, like the top end Pani's are now. But the frame and panels need to be painted.
Originally pearl white panels and gun metal frame, keeping this is one option.
Another is red frame and pearl white panels.
Another is black frame, to match the wheels, and red panels.
I don't know....
Last edited by millemille on Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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weeksy
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millemille
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Re: Ducati Multistretta 1098S
I did consider flat black panels, like the Dark models, with a red frame. One of the Diavel models has that, with the gold urlins bouncy bits and I saw one at Nelly's when I was there with [mention]Couchy[/mention] and it looked all of the shizzle....
But I had stepped away from that, maybe I need to rethink.
Not gloss black though.
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MrLongbeard
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Re: Ducati Multistretta 1098S
Pearlescent red (proper red, really deep n rich) frame with matte grey bodywork
It'll need a trick glass clutch basket window too.
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MrLongbeard
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Re: Ducati Multistretta 1098S
I had a Mk1 Multi in black with red Wheels, previous owner wanted it to match his Senna schemed 996. It really suited it IMO, but maybe too OEM?
How about Paul Smart - blue frame and Silver bodywork?
How about Paul Smart - blue frame and Silver bodywork?
Re: Ducati Multistretta 1098S
When I see that red frame colour I'm anticipating a Pierobon frame and then you see the welds and realise it isn't.. That's where I'd bankrupt myself on such a project. I just couldn't help myself.MrLongbeard wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 12:33 amPearlescent red (proper red, really deep n rich) frame with matte grey bodywork
It'll need a trick glass clutch basket window too.
One thing I'm not so keen on is the exposed belts. The pullies and the end threads aren't meant to be seen and they're not finished for it. I've never seen exposed belts or even glass covered belts that aged well. They quickly start looking a bit tatty. Personally I'd have top end carbon covers. I've got Lieb Speed covers on mine and they are exceptional quality. The glass clutch cover is another matter but you have to keep the clutch clean. Mine has a stainless-tipped Barnett basket which clatters like you wouldn't believe, so I've avoided open covers because they just make the noise worse. The OE cover isn't pretty but it provides sound deadening.