Wanna go fast on track, buy a Panigale

[Couchy]

Never said that in the slightest.

I've always been shit at blipping, even when going slow.

Tbh if you get it wrong you can highside and break your wrist

[weeksy]

Never said that in the slightest.

I've always been shit at blipping, even when going slow.

Tbh if you get it wrong you can highside and break your wrist

I blame you and Hego 100% for that. Not me.

[Yorick]

Never said that in the slightest.

I've always been shit at blipping, even when going slow.

I haven't blipped in last 15 years.

I'll send you out on the xsr, let me know how it goes for you

I'll help if I can

And if you watch this vid from 2007, you'll see I didn't blip at all. I only watched a few laps just now, so may have missed one. But you get the point.

[Horse]

Lol you try it at 130mph into a hairpin.

Change this, try that, etc is easy said, but you're picking your braking marker, you've got bikes in front you're trying to go past, bikes behind coming past you, you're trying to get the best line, best gear and keep the bike you're chasing in the position for an overtake.

It sounds easy "just do this instead" but the reality is lots harder

In the nicest way, cobblers

Did you go straight out, first lap ever, do 130 and then jam on the brakes? No.

Do the same braking points apply to all riders? No.

If training on-road, if I wanted someone to implement a new technique then it would be done at much lower speeds to allow time needed to think then apply it.

Even if this isn't the issue, the principle is the same: learn slow, step by step. Practice (the perfect) and become smooth, then apply at higher speed.

Edit: and you could be practicing this now, sat in your armchair. Visualisation, and physically by doing the actions:
- close the throttle
- squeeze the brake
- imagine the feel of weight transfer in your elbows
- squeeze harder

[Couchy]

I haven't blipped in last 15 years.

I'll send you out on the xsr, let me know how it goes for you

I'll help if I can

And if you watch this vid from 2007, you'll see I didn't blip at all. I only watched a few laps just now, so may have missed one. But you get the point.

Ham fisted baboon 🏍

[Yorick]

I'll send you out on the xsr, let me know how it goes for you

I'll help if I can

And if you watch this vid from 2007, you'll see I didn't blip at all. I only watched a few laps just now, so may have missed one. But you get the point.

Ham fisted baboon 🏍

IIRC, in 2001 our instructor (Malcolm Ashley) described you as "the stylish one". He said I was the rough arsed quick one

[Couchy]

I'll help if I can

And if you watch this vid from 2007, you'll see I didn't blip at all. I only watched a few laps just now, so may have missed one. But you get the point.

Ham fisted baboon 🏍

IIRC, in 2001 our instructor (Malcolm Ashley) described you as "the stylish one". He said I was the rough arsed quick one

19 years ago....I remember he got a bollocking as we overtook Haslam who was 2 up and we scraped the pegs down Craner

[weeksy]

Lol you try it at 130mph into a hairpin.

Change this, try that, etc is easy said, but you're picking your braking marker, you've got bikes in front you're trying to go past, bikes behind coming past you, you're trying to get the best line, best gear and keep the bike you're chasing in the position for an overtake.

It sounds easy "just do this instead" but the reality is lots harder

In the nicest way, cobblers

Did you go straight out, first lap ever, do 130 and then jam on the brakes? No.

Do the same braking points apply to all riders? No.

If training on-road, if I wanted someone to implement a new technique then it would be done at much lower speeds to allow time needed to think then apply it.

Even if this isn't the issue, the principle is the same: learn slow, step by step. Practice (the perfect) and become smooth, then apply at higher speed.

Edit: and you could be practicing this now, sat in your armchair. Visualisation, and physically by doing the actions:
- close the throttle
- squeeze the brake
- imagine the feel of weight transfer in your elbows
- squeeze harder

I don't believe I have that level of imagination.

[Yorick]

Ham fisted baboon 🏍

IIRC, in 2001 our instructor (Malcolm Ashley) described you as "the stylish one". He said I was the rough arsed quick one

19 years ago....I remember he got a bollocking as we overtook Haslam who was 2 up and we scraped the pegs down Craner

That day was as funny as fuck, for those who weren't there....

It was a special Haslam day which we all got at half price. 20 or 30 there from VD. All planning to ride CBR600s
When the instructor (Malcolm Ashley BSB Rider) asked us our ability, I said 10 years racing and Couchy said 200 trackdays. He said "are you here to learn, or to play " PLAY we said

he said "OK, I'll get a Fireblade to make it more fun for you". And off we went

In one session I was pushing so hard into the Melbourne hairpin trying to overtake Ashley, they sent another instructor out to slow me down

Great day shared by 30 other VDers

It was before Couchy started racing, so I think I was a bit quicker that day. But he caught up when he DID start racing

[Horse]

Edit: and you could be practicing this now, sat in your armchair. Visualisation, and physically by doing the actions:
- close the throttle
- squeeze the brake
- imagine the feel of weight transfer in your elbows
- squeeze harder

I don't believe I have that level of imagination.

Seriously?

Do you never get back to the pits after a session and think through what you did, what you might do differently next time?

When you're about to change an exhaust on the bike, do you not think through how you will do it, what tools, how long it will take, etc.?

Wherever you are now, think about what you would have to do to get a beer, pop the top off the bottle (Where's the opener, what noise will it make, where will the loose top go) and pour it into a clean glass (which cupboard did you get it from, where's the handle, which shelf, how will you pour to avoid froth?).

Now think about being on an empty track. Sod the markers, sort them when you know how much space you need. Imagine a corner you know well. You're riding comfortably within your limits, you have time to spare. Now mentally work through the actions. Get them smooth in your mind. Then perch on the edge of a chair and physically go through them.

When you're on track you don't have to be better than other riders, you have to be better than you were the previous lap.

[Yorick]

IIRC, in 2001 our instructor (Malcolm Ashley) described you as "the stylish one". He said I was the rough arsed quick one

19 years ago....I remember he got a bollocking as we overtook Haslam who was 2 up and we scraped the pegs down Craner

That day was as funny as fuck, for those who weren't there....

It was a special Haslam day which we all got at half price. 20 or 30 there from VD. All planning to ride CBR600s
When the instructor (Malcolm Ashley BSB Rider) asked us our ability, I said 10 years racing and Couchy said 200 trackdays. He said "are you here to learn, or to play " PLAY we said

he said "OK, I'll get a Fireblade to make it more fun for you". And off we went

In one session I was pushing so hard into the Melbourne hairpin trying to overtake Ashley, they sent another instructor out to slow me down

Great day shared by 30 other VDers

It was before Couchy started racing, so I think I was a bit quicker that day. But he caught up when he DID start racing

Looking back, this was when VD was absolutely mental with hundreds of members posting every night and was hard to keep up sometimes. It became almost insane.
So this Haslam day was the first time we'd seen each other on track.

To me and Couchy it was a normal day, but we were lapping almost every rider every 2 or 3 laps, and we did (ahem) get a little bit of praise and admiration in the pub later

We didn't tell them that Malcolm Ashley would have lapped us in about 6 laps as he was proper BSB level


EDIT, I remember somebody said "I was passed every few laps by the Yorick and Couchy freight train"

[weeksy]

Edit: and you could be practicing this now, sat in your armchair. Visualisation, and physically by doing the actions:
- close the throttle
- squeeze the brake
- imagine the feel of weight transfer in your elbows
- squeeze harder

I don't believe I have that level of imagination.

Seriously?

Do you never get back to the pits after a session and think through what you did, what you might do differently next time?

When you're about to change an exhaust on the bike, do you not think through how you will do it, what tools, how long it will take, etc.?

Wherever you are now, think about what you would have to do to get a beer, pop the top off the bottle (Where's the opener, what noise will it make, where will the loose top go) and pour it into a clean glass (which cupboard did you get it from, where's the handle, which shelf, how will you pour to avoid froth?).

Now think about being on an empty track. Sod the markers, sort them when you know how much space you need. Imagine a corner you know well. You're riding comfortably within your limits, you have time to spare. Now mentally work through the actions. Get them smooth in your mind. Then perch on the edge of a chair and physically go through them.

When you're on track you don't have to be better than other riders, you have to be better than you were the previous lap.

I'm clearly not you. I can sit here and talk you through every single gear change on a circuit, lines, braking, whatever you like. But as for doing what you're saying and using that to affect my riding, no, sorry, I can't do that. I don't actually understand what you think above would achieve.
You seem to have a misconception here that my braking is harsh and my riding not smooth or consistent, couldn't be further from the truth. When racing a 7 lap race, they'd all be within 0.4s every lap of eachother. Consistent was easy. Speed, not so easy. I'm still consistent now, just at a slower pace. But every gear change is in the same spot, every line is exactly the same lap after lap, maybe rubbish, but the same rubbish each time lol.

Imo you don't have to be better than your last lap either, been there played that game. It's not how I ride on track.i just ride for pleasure nowdays, not to improve.

[Dave@ERT]

Been pondering this a bit before posting a reply ?? I don’t feel there’s too much wrong with my braking technique...I raced at a decent level for 10 years and, whilst I’m not claiming to be king of the late brakers, I wasn’t too shabby on the anchors either. I don’t use the rear brake on track (I’m guessing they’ll be a few comments on that !?) so that shouldn’t be causing the abs to kick in ??
It feels as though just as I’m really squeezing the brakes, expecting the back to go light, the abs kicks in and the brakes don’t stop me as effectively ?? I suppose it’s possible I’m touching the back brake without realising it ??...certainly worth me being aware of in future I’ve only got the little 700 Tracer...does it maybe have a more basic system than the 900 ??
Like you Weeksy, I consider myself a pretty smooth rider and I’ve never been one for getting the bike out of shape, so I’d be surprised if it was hamfistedness that was the issue ?

[Mr. Dazzle]

Quite an interesting thread....

The ABS on modern bikes considers the front and rear wheel speeds simultaneously, as well as the speed of the wheels in isolation. I.e. it looks at the relative speeds of the two wheels as part of its calculations about whether you're locking up or not. Older systems didn't do that, which is why they were alot "harsher". The mathematical modelling behind it is quite closely guarded by Bosch et al, I.e. the people who ultimately make the ABS systems.

So even if you're not locking front/rear each wheel does influence the other, as Couchy says.

[weeksy]

Quite an interesting thread....

The ABS on modern bikes considers the front and rear wheel speeds simultaneously, as well as the speed of the wheels in isolation. I.e. it looks at the relative speeds of the two wheels as part of its calculations about whether you're locking up or not. Older systems didn't do that, which is why they were alot "harsher". The mathematical modelling behind it is quite closely guarded by Bosch et al, I.e. the people who ultimately make the ABS systems.

So even if you're not locking front/rear each wheel does influence the other, as Couchy says.

I do understand, I get it's the rear wheel speed difference as I go down the box with the slipper. The irritation is that other bikes seem to deal with it better.

But it's only one corner, not all of them, so I'm not too worried

[Mr. Dazzle]

The set up is pretty sensitive to a bunch of parameters that go into the ABS algorithms. Bosch etc. provide the systems and Yamaha will (attempt to) tune the various values to get the optimum braking performance. The mechanical behaviour of the wheels/suspension also changes how the braking works of course.

Basically there are lots of factors at play, so bikes are gonna be different.

[Rockburner]

19 years ago....I remember he got a bollocking as we overtook Haslam who was 2 up and we scraped the pegs down Craner

That day was as funny as fuck, for those who weren't there....

It was a special Haslam day which we all got at half price. 20 or 30 there from VD. All planning to ride CBR600s
When the instructor (Malcolm Ashley BSB Rider) asked us our ability, I said 10 years racing and Couchy said 200 trackdays. He said "are you here to learn, or to play " PLAY we said

he said "OK, I'll get a Fireblade to make it more fun for you". And off we went

In one session I was pushing so hard into the Melbourne hairpin trying to overtake Ashley, they sent another instructor out to slow me down

Great day shared by 30 other VDers

It was before Couchy started racing, so I think I was a bit quicker that day. But he caught up when he DID start racing

Looking back, this was when VD was absolutely mental with hundreds of members posting every night and was hard to keep up sometimes. It became almost insane.
So this Haslam day was the first time we'd seen each other on track.

To me and Couchy it was a normal day, but we were lapping almost every rider every 2 or 3 laps, and we did (ahem) get a little bit of praise and admiration in the pub later

We didn't tell them that Malcolm Ashley would have lapped us in about 6 laps as he was proper BSB level


EDIT, I remember somebody said "I was passed every few laps by the Yorick and Couchy freight train"

Those Haslam days were excellent fun. . I think i did 2 or 3 over the years with the same instructor: Derek Lloyd, he was a TT racer who we knew.

Long time ago though and things have changed a lot since I did any track riding.

[Horse]

But as for doing what you're saying and using that to affect my riding, no, sorry, I can't do that. I don't actually understand what you think above would achieve.

You seem to have a misconception here that my braking is harsh and my riding not smooth or consistent, couldn't be further from the truth.

Imo you don't have to be better than your last lap either, been there played that game. It's not how I ride on track.i just ride for pleasure nowdays, not to improve.

No worries, misunderstanding on my part. I read it that you were experiencing the ABS operating when you didn't want it to. If it's only one corner then are you doing something different there to other corners. But if you're content that it does, then there's no need for you to do anything.

Those examples were all of visualisation, which you said you couldn't do, and to emphasise that you don't have to wait right up to that 130mph corner approach to start making changes.

[weeksy]

No need for apologies, it's a discussion forum. That's what we do. Good or bad, right or wrong, it's all bike talk, all good

[Couchy]

Edit: and you could be practicing this now, sat in your armchair. Visualisation, and physically by doing the actions:
- close the throttle
- squeeze the brake
- imagine the feel of weight transfer in your elbows
- squeeze harder

I don't believe I have that level of imagination.

Seriously?

Do you never get back to the pits after a session and think through what you did, what you might do differently next time?

When you're about to change an exhaust on the bike, do you not think through how you will do it, what tools, how long it will take, etc.?

Wherever you are now, think about what you would have to do to get a beer, pop the top off the bottle (Where's the opener, what noise will it make, where will the loose top go) and pour it into a clean glass (which cupboard did you get it from, where's the handle, which shelf, how will you pour to avoid froth?).

Now think about being on an empty track. Sod the markers, sort them when you know how much space you need. Imagine a corner you know well. You're riding comfortably within your limits, you have time to spare. Now mentally work through the actions. Get them smooth in your mind. Then perch on the edge of a chair and physically go through them.

When you're on track you don't have to be better than other riders, you have to be better than you were the previous lap.

I think we agree on most of that but the better each lap bit, if that was possible then after a Trackday we’d be on lap record pace just by going better each lap. I can put in dozens of laps on the same pace and exact same bit of tarmac. If all it took was to be better on the next lap I’d go quicker. In the past I’ve had instruction and they’ve all said the riding and technique are fine now just go quicker .
There has to be a limit built in where going better just isn’t possible.

However it does apply to cack handed riders who don’t blip