Wanna go fast on track, buy a Panigale

Discussions on your upcoming trackdays, discusions on WSB, MotoGP, BSB or even F1.
Dave@ERT
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Re: Wanna go fast on track, buy a Panigale

Post by Dave@ERT »

Ha ha !!🤣🤣 I’ll take a look at that👍 To be fair to Yamaha it’s pretty good as a road based ‘emergency’ abs system, which is exactly what they designed it for. I don’t really do enough track riding now for it to be worthwhile messing with it. I kind of have a split personality with my likes/dislikes...when I’m road riding I’m very safety biased and can totally see all the electronic aids, but if I’m on a track or off road I don’t want any ‘outside’ help, I want to feel that I’m able to push the limits a bit (well, MY limits at least !🤣)
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Re: Wanna go fast on track, buy a Panigale

Post by Dodgy69 »

Don't like abs on track, horrid. 👎
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weeksy
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Re: Wanna go fast on track, buy a Panigale

Post by weeksy »

What I don't know is, if you fit that, do you need to change the lines and remove the motor/servo etc, j suspect it's a yes. But that's clearly a lot more work and effort than just plugging In a box and it disabling it.
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Re: Wanna go fast on track, buy a Panigale

Post by Dave@ERT »

I might be oversimplifying things greatly, but...what would happen if you just removed the abs motor fuse ?
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weeksy
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Re: Wanna go fast on track, buy a Panigale

Post by weeksy »

Dave@ERT wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 1:54 pm I might be oversimplifying things greatly, but...what would happen if you just removed the abs motor fuse ?
It's been discussed but not sure any of the fz09 guys have tried it. You'd obviously get a dash warning light
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Re: Wanna go fast on track, buy a Panigale

Post by Couchy »

All the abs systems I’ve used on track have been superb and better than me tbh. As for TC on the minimum settings it lets the rear slide, if you can push that far regularly and deliberately you may not need the safety net. I always left it on and when a slide came I was happy at that limit. I’ve always been smooth on the throttle and brakes so even without TC slides have always been gentle, I guess some who are more aggressive can get the electronics to kick in earlier while also going slower, if too aggressive you can still highside too.
I’m intrigued by the tracer and xsr abs comments as my MT09SP had no abs issues, are the riders perhaps letting some pressure off when it cuts in making it run on ? I’ve no idea as I didn’t get the problem
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Re: Wanna go fast on track, buy a Panigale

Post by weeksy »

Couchy wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:30 pm I’m intrigued by the tracer and xsr abs comments as my MT09SP had no abs issues, are the riders perhaps letting some pressure off when it cuts in making it run on ? I’ve no idea as I didn’t get the problem
No. I wasn't actually braking that hard at all.

Well, hard enough I guess as I was outbraking a bike or two. But not crazy late
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Re: Wanna go fast on track, buy a Panigale

Post by Couchy »

weeksy wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:36 pm
Couchy wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:30 pm I’m intrigued by the tracer and xsr abs comments as my MT09SP had no abs issues, are the riders perhaps letting some pressure off when it cuts in making it run on ? I’ve no idea as I didn’t get the problem
No. I wasn't actually braking that hard at all.

Well, hard enough I guess as I was outbraking a bike or two. But not crazy late
And what was it doing ? Was it the rear working and confusing you ? I can’t believe the front was cutting in and out as the systems are brilliant these days
Do you properly load the front before giving it 100% braking effort ?
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Re: Wanna go fast on track, buy a Panigale

Post by weeksy »

Front judder. I don't give it 100% I give it about 80% I reckon. But I go from throttle to brakes, I don't ease, then more.

The main thing I noticed was when I blipped I could stop it, if I didn't blip, I got the abs kicking in. Maybe the blipping in itself changes how I was changing down in terms of speed of changes, which settled it. I honestly don't really have the answer. All I know is, it was only at Pembrey and into the hairpin.

I'd argue, at Silverstone into the chicane on the GP or even into the left hander after the 2nd pit straight I braked harder than I was at Pembrey, which is why I'm a little confused.
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Re: Wanna go fast on track, buy a Panigale

Post by Couchy »

As we’ve discussed it’s the rear setting it off, the rider isn’t keeping the bike settled enough under braking not the bikes fault 👍
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Re: Wanna go fast on track, buy a Panigale

Post by weeksy »

Couchy wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:06 pm As we’ve discussed it’s the rear setting it off, the rider isn’t keeping the bike settled enough under braking not the bikes fault 👍
690/790, both same technique, same incompetent rider, no issue.

So it kinda is the bikes fault.
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Re: Wanna go fast on track, buy a Panigale

Post by Yorick »

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Re: Wanna go fast on track, buy a Panigale

Post by Horse »

Adding to Couchy's post.
weeksy wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:49 pm
I don't give it 100% I give it about 80% I reckon.
But I go from throttle to brakes, I don't ease, then more.
% of what amount? It could be that, without achieving weight transfer onto the front, you are at 100% of what grip you have.

By getting more weight onto the front, 80% could be greater than 100% when you have more even weight distribution. Simply, weight = grip. More weight, more grip.

Closing the throttle will start that change of weight distribution, squeezing the brakes will increase it. Braking harder will get more weight over the front (assuming you don't exceed grip available). At extremes, the rear tyre will lift.

If the ABS works solely on wheel rotation, if it keeps turning then it won't operate.

However, if you just grab the front lever, you could exceed the grip available, so the ABS will work.

Guessing, the juddering could be because of the rapid brake-release action, perhaps either fork flex or bounce.
weeksy wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:49 pm
The main thing I noticed was when I blipped I could stop it, if I didn't blip, I got the abs kicking in. Maybe the blipping in itself changes how I was changing down in terms of speed of changes, which settled it.
If you have time to blip the throttle, do you have slightly more time to apply the brakes? So less 'grab', more 'apply'.
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Re: Wanna go fast on track, buy a Panigale

Post by weeksy »

Horse wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:21 pm Adding to Couchy's post.
weeksy wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:49 pm
I don't give it 100% I give it about 80% I reckon.
But I go from throttle to brakes, I don't ease, then more.
% of what amount? It could be that, without achieving weight transfer onto the front, you are at 100% of what grip you have.

By getting more weight onto the front, 80% could be greater than 100% when you have more even weight distribution. Simply, weight = grip. More weight, more grip.

Closing the throttle will start that change of weight distribution, squeezing the brakes will increase it. Braking harder will get more weight over the front (assuming you don't exceed grip available). At extremes, the rear tyre will lift.

If the ABS works solely on wheel rotation, if it keeps turning then it won't operate.

However, if you just grab the front lever, you could exceed the grip available, so the ABS will work.

Guessing, the juddering could be because of the rapid brake-release action, perhaps either fork flex or bounce.
weeksy wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:49 pm
The main thing I noticed was when I blipped I could stop it, if I didn't blip, I got the abs kicking in. Maybe the blipping in itself changes how I was changing down in terms of speed of changes, which settled it.
If you have time to blip the throttle, do you have slightly more time to apply the brakes? So less 'grab', more 'apply'.
Lol you try it at 130mph into a hairpin.

Change this, try that, etc is easy said, but you're picking your braking marker, you've got bikes in front you're trying to go past, bikes behind coming past you, you're trying to get the best line, best gear and keep the bike you're chasing in the position for an overtake.

It sounds easy "just do this instead" but the reality is lots harder
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Re: Wanna go fast on track, buy a Panigale

Post by Couchy »

weeksy wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:15 pm
Couchy wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:06 pm As we’ve discussed it’s the rear setting it off, the rider isn’t keeping the bike settled enough under braking not the bikes fault 👍
690/790, both same technique, same incompetent rider, no issue.

So it kinda is the bikes fault.
No it’s not all bikes are different and need different styles, that’s like blaming tyres that let go when you go beyond their limit. XSR is bigger heavier and faster so needs a smoother technique 👍
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Re: Wanna go fast on track, buy a Panigale

Post by weeksy »

Couchy wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:28 pm
weeksy wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:15 pm
Couchy wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:06 pm As we’ve discussed it’s the rear setting it off, the rider isn’t keeping the bike settled enough under braking not the bikes fault 👍
690/790, both same technique, same incompetent rider, no issue.

So it kinda is the bikes fault.
No it’s not all bikes are different and need different styles, that’s like blaming tyres that let go when you go beyond their limit. XSR is bigger heavier and faster so needs a smoother technique 👍
Aye, it's a fair point. But I still think it should be better
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Re: Wanna go fast on track, buy a Panigale

Post by Couchy »

weeksy wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:24 pm
Horse wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:21 pm Adding to Couchy's post.
weeksy wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:49 pm
I don't give it 100% I give it about 80% I reckon.
But I go from throttle to brakes, I don't ease, then more.
% of what amount? It could be that, without achieving weight transfer onto the front, you are at 100% of what grip you have.

By getting more weight onto the front, 80% could be greater than 100% when you have more even weight distribution. Simply, weight = grip. More weight, more grip.

Closing the throttle will start that change of weight distribution, squeezing the brakes will increase it. Braking harder will get more weight over the front (assuming you don't exceed grip available). At extremes, the rear tyre will lift.

If the ABS works solely on wheel rotation, if it keeps turning then it won't operate.

However, if you just grab the front lever, you could exceed the grip available, so the ABS will work.

Guessing, the juddering could be because of the rapid brake-release action, perhaps either fork flex or bounce.
weeksy wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:49 pm
The main thing I noticed was when I blipped I could stop it, if I didn't blip, I got the abs kicking in. Maybe the blipping in itself changes how I was changing down in terms of speed of changes, which settled it.
If you have time to blip the throttle, do you have slightly more time to apply the brakes? So less 'grab', more 'apply'.
Lol you try it at 130mph into a hairpin.

Change this, try that, etc is easy said, but you're picking your braking marker, you've got bikes in front you're trying to go past, bikes behind coming past you, you're trying to get the best line, best gear and keep the bike you're chasing in the position for an overtake.

It sounds easy "just do this instead" but the reality is lots harder
But you’re in control and if you’re putting yourself into a position you can’t do what you should then you need to slow down and not go too fast for yourself 🏆
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weeksy
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Re: Wanna go fast on track, buy a Panigale

Post by weeksy »

Never said that in the slightest.

I've always been shit at blipping, even when going slow.
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Re: Wanna go fast on track, buy a Panigale

Post by Yorick »

weeksy wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:31 pm Never said that in the slightest.

I've always been shit at blipping, even when going slow.
I haven't blipped in last 15 years.
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Re: Wanna go fast on track, buy a Panigale

Post by weeksy »

Yorick wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:33 pm
weeksy wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:31 pm Never said that in the slightest.

I've always been shit at blipping, even when going slow.
I haven't blipped in last 15 years.
I'll send you out on the xsr, let me know how it goes for you :thumbup: