Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

[wheelnut]

One charging point per house seems a bit of overkill in some places. I wonder if we'll get 'local community' charging points where people club together and install one, get a good tariff deal, and have a booking system.

Could work in some blocks of flats.

I plug mine in (almost) every night and it just tops up to 80 or 90%. I get 5 hours per night at cheap rate on my tariff which is enough to charge it 50%.

[Horse]

. I guess there will have to be charging points installed down such streets eventually, if its not already happening?

Not exactly Victorian terraces, but plenty of chargers installed along pavements here.

And near neighbours recently obtained planning permission to have a 'slot' cut across the pavement for a charging cable.

[Taipan]

Was reading up on EVs a bit lately and trying to read up on older cars* as that's what i'd buy if I did go down that route. I found out about Phantom drain which I didn't know about. Basically the car drains the battery by c1% each day even if its not used, as there are lot of leccy things that need powering. So if you turned up at a airport for a 14 day holiday and arrived with say 20% charge left, you're only coming back to 6%.

It also seems the recommendation is to keep the car charged up and not left unplugged when not in use. I'm a bit disappointed in this as I don't use my car very often (Rangey done just over 4k in 2.5 years) and feel like i'd literally be burning money and I guess reducing my zero emissions gain by the electric waste?

I also found out about the 20-80% charge rule. Its best to keep it between those values and not full charged/discharged. So again the range is more limited than you'd think. ALthough I did also read that the average UK car journey is 8.9 miles!

Again, I hadn't realised just how much of a battery range killer winter is, and its further compounded by using the heater! I think some Teslas have heat pumps to counter this but haven't read up about them specifically or if any other manufacturers use them?

I think an EV could easily work for us as our daily, but its looking like its not so viable as a second car with only occasional use?


*Newer EVs may not have phantom drain? But I wouldn't be buying a newer one...

[Mussels]

Heat pumps don't work as well in the cold either, I suspect any advertised performance figures are taken when it's quite warm outside.

[Mr. Dazzle]

The official WLTP test is at 23 degrees, with a second test at 14 degrees because 'they' recognise 23 is quite a high average temperature for much of the world.

Heat pumps* don't do much in the cold 'cause there's no heat to pump! They work by moving thermal energy from hot places to cold (and vice versa)...so moving waste heat from the motor cooling system, or the cabin heat the AC is getting rid of. On a cold day you won't have AC on so there's no heat to be got. The motor itself doesn't get very hot at all, you'd have to be ragging it on a racetrack to get any real heat. Thus, in the very cold, there's not much "free" heat available to warm the battery up.

You just don't notice any of this on an ICE car because 60-80% of the fuel you burn gets turned into waste heat, so there's plenty go around

*This is another term which gets thrown around a lot with little understanding. Your fridge is a heat pump.

[Docca]

Was reading up on EVs a bit lately and trying to read up on older cars* as that's what i'd buy if I did go down that route. I found out about Phantom drain which I didn't know about. Basically the car drains the battery by c1% each day even if its not used, as there are lot of leccy things that need powering. So if you turned up at a airport for a 14 day holiday and arrived with say 20% charge left, you're only coming back to 6%.

It also seems the recommendation is to keep the car charged up and not left unplugged when not in use. I'm a bit disappointed in this as I don't use my car very often (Rangey done just over 4k in 2.5 years) and feel like i'd literally be burning money and I guess reducing my zero emissions gain by the electric waste?

I also found out about the 20-80% charge rule. Its best to keep it between those values and not full charged/discharged. So again the range is more limited than you'd think. ALthough I did also read that the average UK car journey is 8.9 miles!

Again, I hadn't realised just how much of a battery range killer winter is, and its further compounded by using the heater! I think some Teslas have heat pumps to counter this but haven't read up about them specifically or if any other manufacturers use them?

I think an EV could easily work for us as our daily, but its looking like its not so viable as a second car with only occasional use?


*Newer EVs may not have phantom drain? But I wouldn't be buying a newer one...

I think you (royal) need to be pragmatic about what is actually real world advice and what is perfection.

Mobile phone makers will say don’t leave your phone on charge - yet most do overnight. Etc etc

EVs needing to remain plugged in does not match my experience and I can happily leave this car ( and the previous one) on the drive and go on holiday for 2 weeks and it’s the same battery numbers that come up. You can also set your charger to only charge at certain times. I set mine to only be used during off peak tariff time.

I get about 50 more miles per charge in the summer than winter - but I’m still 280/300 miles.

80/20 charge is a load of shit. I charge mine to 100% every time and it’s never shown any sign of harming the battery. I know that might sound a bit like ‘my uncle smoked until he was 90 so cigarettes don’t cause harm’ but it’s my experience over the last 4/5 years.

I think you either get one and live with it ( there are adjustments to be made) or spend all your days finding reasons not to.

[Mr. Dazzle]

80/20 charge is a load of shit. I charge mine to 100% every time and it’s never shown any sign of harming the battery. I know that might sound a bit like ‘my uncle smoked until he was 90 so cigarettes don’t cause harm’

I suspect it's actually 'cause your Beemer doesn't charge to 100%

The 80% thing is kinda true but it's not so stark as this 80/20 rule everyone knows™. OEMs are fully aware of this phenomenon (again, if it's obvious to YOU...) so the battery systems intentionally don't fully charge. They also manage the charging to mitigate, you might have noticed the charge rate drops as you near "full"...although perhaps not, if you only ever charge at home on low power.

[Taipan]

Was reading up on EVs a bit lately and trying to read up on older cars* as that's what i'd buy if I did go down that route. I found out about Phantom drain which I didn't know about. Basically the car drains the battery by c1% each day even if its not used, as there are lot of leccy things that need powering. So if you turned up at a airport for a 14 day holiday and arrived with say 20% charge left, you're only coming back to 6%.

It also seems the recommendation is to keep the car charged up and not left unplugged when not in use. I'm a bit disappointed in this as I don't use my car very often (Rangey done just over 4k in 2.5 years) and feel like i'd literally be burning money and I guess reducing my zero emissions gain by the electric waste?

I also found out about the 20-80% charge rule. Its best to keep it between those values and not full charged/discharged. So again the range is more limited than you'd think. ALthough I did also read that the average UK car journey is 8.9 miles!

Again, I hadn't realised just how much of a battery range killer winter is, and its further compounded by using the heater! I think some Teslas have heat pumps to counter this but haven't read up about them specifically or if any other manufacturers use them?

I think an EV could easily work for us as our daily, but its looking like its not so viable as a second car with only occasional use?


*Newer EVs may not have phantom drain? But I wouldn't be buying a newer one...

I think you (royal) need to be pragmatic about what is actually real world advice and what is perfection.

Mobile phone makers will say don’t leave your phone on charge - yet most do overnight. Etc etc

EVs needing to remain plugged in does not match my experience and I can happily leave this car ( and the previous one) on the drive and go on holiday for 2 weeks and it’s the same battery numbers that come up. You can also set your charger to only charge at certain times. I set mine to only be used during off peak tariff time.

I get about 50 more miles per charge in the summer than winter - but I’m still 280/300 miles.

80/20 charge is a load of shit. I charge mine to 100% every time and it’s never shown any sign of harming the battery. I know that might sound a bit like ‘my uncle smoked until he was 90 so cigarettes don’t cause harm’ but it’s my experience over the last 4/5 years.

I think you either get one and live with it ( there are adjustments to be made) or spend all your days finding reasons not to.

Yours is a new car with more advanced tech to what i'm researching. Its not really a question of finding reasons not to buy one, God knows i'm normally an impulsive buyer, i'm more trying to separate the wheat from the chaff when it comes to (mis)information over EVs.

[Mussels]

Any new tech from car manufacturers tends to be unreliable and expensive, they hide faults and ignore customers. It's been the same with many 'improvements' over the years - ABS, traction control, dual clutch gearboxes, DPF, DMF etc.
EVs and especially 2nd hand ones are still too new tech for my liking.

[Rockburner]

I think an EV could easily work for us as our daily,

Daily short journeys is the "raison d'etre" (reason to exist) for EVs, to be frank.
It's what they're best at.

[Taipan]

I think an EV could easily work for us as our daily,

Daily short journeys is the "raison d'etre" (reason to exist) for EVs, to be frank.
It's what they're best at.

Aye, s'why I'd like one for the wife. Problem I have is my wife loves her car, as it was free, well £18.00, so I can not justify the expense of changing it to her, which I understand given those circumstances.

[Rockburner]

I think an EV could easily work for us as our daily,

Daily short journeys is the "raison d'etre" (reason to exist) for EVs, to be frank.
It's what they're best at.

Aye, s'why I'd like one for the wife. Problem I have is my wife loves her car, as it was free, well £18.00, so I can not justify the expense of changing it to her, which I understand given those circumstances.

free car??

I suppose I can't exactly comment - I got a free bike.

[Count Steer]

Daily short journeys is the "raison d'etre" (reason to exist) for EVs, to be frank.
It's what they're best at.

Aye, s'why I'd like one for the wife. Problem I have is my wife loves her car, as it was free, well £18.00, so I can not justify the expense of changing it to her, which I understand given those circumstances.

free car??

I suppose I can't exactly comment - I got a free bike.

£18 + all the 'investments' that didn't win.

[Docca]

Was reading up on EVs a bit lately and trying to read up on older cars* as that's what i'd buy if I did go down that route. I found out about Phantom drain which I didn't know about. Basically the car drains the battery by c1% each day even if its not used, as there are lot of leccy things that need powering. So if you turned up at a airport for a 14 day holiday and arrived with say 20% charge left, you're only coming back to 6%.

It also seems the recommendation is to keep the car charged up and not left unplugged when not in use. I'm a bit disappointed in this as I don't use my car very often (Rangey done just over 4k in 2.5 years) and feel like i'd literally be burning money and I guess reducing my zero emissions gain by the electric waste?

I also found out about the 20-80% charge rule. Its best to keep it between those values and not full charged/discharged. So again the range is more limited than you'd think. ALthough I did also read that the average UK car journey is 8.9 miles!

Again, I hadn't realised just how much of a battery range killer winter is, and its further compounded by using the heater! I think some Teslas have heat pumps to counter this but haven't read up about them specifically or if any other manufacturers use them?

I think an EV could easily work for us as our daily, but its looking like its not so viable as a second car with only occasional use?


*Newer EVs may not have phantom drain? But I wouldn't be buying a newer one...

I think you (royal) need to be pragmatic about what is actually real world advice and what is perfection.

Mobile phone makers will say don’t leave your phone on charge - yet most do overnight. Etc etc

EVs needing to remain plugged in does not match my experience and I can happily leave this car ( and the previous one) on the drive and go on holiday for 2 weeks and it’s the same battery numbers that come up. You can also set your charger to only charge at certain times. I set mine to only be used during off peak tariff time.

I get about 50 more miles per charge in the summer than winter - but I’m still 280/300 miles.

80/20 charge is a load of shit. I charge mine to 100% every time and it’s never shown any sign of harming the battery. I know that might sound a bit like ‘my uncle smoked until he was 90 so cigarettes don’t cause harm’ but it’s my experience over the last 4/5 years.

I think you either get one and live with it ( there are adjustments to be made) or spend all your days finding reasons not to.

Yours is a new car with more advanced tech to what i'm researching. Its not really a question of finding reasons not to buy one, God knows i'm normally an impulsive buyer, i'm more trying to separate the wheat from the chaff when it comes to (mis)information over EVs.

My Volvo XC40 will be 5 years old now I think so definitely second hand. After 3 years it had absolutely none of the concerns you’ve described.

Again though - I think you do have to make adjustments. It’s not the same as owning a petrol car (I have two of those too).

With home charging- EVs make all the sense in the world. Without it; having to charge out in the wild, I wouldn’t bother at all. The 3 months I had this scenario before getting a charger installed were beyond frustrating.

[wheelnut]

Was reading up on EVs a bit lately and trying to read up on older cars* as that's what i'd buy if I did go down that route. I found out about Phantom drain which I didn't know about. Basically the car drains the battery by c1% each day even if its not used, as there are lot of leccy things that need powering. So if you turned up at a airport for a 14 day holiday and arrived with say 20% charge left, you're only coming back to 6%.

Not sure if that's a thing or not, but just having got back from 10 days with it parked in Man jet parks 3, it was exactly the same when I got back as it was when I left it. The way (I'm pretty sure) mine works is that all the ancillary stuff works off the 12v battery, just like a normal car.

It also seems the recommendation is to keep the car charged up and not left unplugged when not in use. I'm a bit disappointed in this as I don't use my car very often (Rangey done just over 4k in 2.5 years) and feel like i'd literally be burning money and I guess reducing my zero emissions gain by the electric waste?

I do tend to keep mine topped up. I plug it in most nights and it tops up to the level you choose. Not sure how it's a waste?

I also found out about the 20-80% charge rule. Its best to keep it between those values and not full charged/discharged. So again the range is more limited than you'd think. ALthough I did also read that the average UK car journey is 8.9 miles!

This does apply to most EVs but again it's not a hardship. There's nothing stopping you topping up to 100%. It does take longer to top up from 80% to 100% at a fast charger though as the rate it takes it in tails off.

Again, I hadn't realised just how much of a battery range killer winter is, and its further compounded by using the heater! I think some Teslas have heat pumps to counter this but haven't read up about them specifically or if any other manufacturers use them?

Yes, is can be 10-20% if it's really cold. Mine has a heat pump. Keep the car warm just fine and does seem to help the range a lot.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Pretty much every EV runs the ancillaries off the normal 12V battery for two big reasons. Hooking up your interior lights to an 800V supply probably isn't very smart, and all the existing supply chain is set up for 12V components.

The 12V battery is only going to go flat for the same reason it'd go flat in other cars. If Tesla have a problem with this it's for standard bad car reasons, not specifically cause its an EV.

[Taipan]

Was reading up on EVs a bit lately and trying to read up on older cars* as that's what i'd buy if I did go down that route. I found out about Phantom drain which I didn't know about. Basically the car drains the battery by c1% each day even if its not used, as there are lot of leccy things that need powering. So if you turned up at a airport for a 14 day holiday and arrived with say 20% charge left, you're only coming back to 6%.

Not sure if that's a thing or not, but just having got back from 10 days with it parked in Man jet parks 3, it was exactly the same when I got back as it was when I left it. The way (I'm pretty sure) mine works is that all the ancillary stuff works off the 12v battery, just like a normal car.

It also seems the recommendation is to keep the car charged up and not left unplugged when not in use. I'm a bit disappointed in this as I don't use my car very often (Rangey done just over 4k in 2.5 years) and feel like i'd literally be burning money and I guess reducing my zero emissions gain by the electric waste?

I do tend to keep mine topped up. I plug it in most nights and it tops up to the level you choose. Not sure how it's a waste?

I also found out about the 20-80% charge rule. Its best to keep it between those values and not full charged/discharged. So again the range is more limited than you'd think. ALthough I did also read that the average UK car journey is 8.9 miles!

This does apply to most EVs but again it's not a hardship. There's nothing stopping you topping up to 100%. It does take longer to top up from 80% to 100% at a fast charger though as the rate it takes it in tails off.

Again, I hadn't realised just how much of a battery range killer winter is, and its further compounded by using the heater! I think some Teslas have heat pumps to counter this but haven't read up about them specifically or if any other manufacturers use them?

Yes, is can be 10-20% if it's really cold. Mine has a heat pump. Keep the car warm just fine and does seem to help the range a lot.

Thanks, thats really helpful. I've since read that you can turn a lot of things off like sentry (on Teslas)and things that run in the background to avoid it as well. I also think because i'm reading reviews from 4/5 years ago Journos may not have been that up to spec on everything and some of it maybe misleading? Interesting stuff though.

This was aninstesting review on a £100k+ miles Tesla. Has to be said it represents incredible value over ICE.

[Count Steer]

Pretty much every EV runs the ancillaries off the normal 12V battery for two big reasons. Hooking up your interior lights to an 800V supply probably isn't very smart, and all the existing supply chain is set up for 12V components.

The 12V battery is only going to go flat for the same reason it'd go flat in other cars. If Tesla have a problem with this it's for standard bad car reasons, not specifically cause its an EV.

Dunno if EVs are the same as hybrids but a lot of them use 'leisure batteries' rather than 'normal' ones. Ours had a tendency to go flat on the first v cold winter day each year. Probably because, being used almost exclusively for short journeys, it was low on charge. I got pretty slick with the Noco booster even though it was once per year.

When we traded it in for a new one the chap asked 'Any problems?' so I told him. He shrugged and, pretty much, said 'they all do that sir'. Well, he actually said 'It's not uncommon, depending on useage'.

Some pretty annoying design flaws in that respect. You unlock/open the doors and the mirrors fold out - using battery power. My (ICE) car they open when you start the engine.

[Mr. Dazzle]

The 12V battery doesn't need to be able to start the engine, so they can use a different type yes. Normally that would mean one which is more optimised for long term "stability", not less.

Tesla had a thing for a while where if the 12V went flat you couldn't do anything at all. It charges the 12V from the "big" battery, but it needs the 12V to provide enough power for the management systems on said big battery. They had a problem where if both were flat you were scuppered Since you're never gonna jump start a Tesla the 12V battery isn't easily accessible.

Not like ICE cars don't also have loads of reliability problems though is it? As above, it doesn't have to be perfect to be better.

[Saga Lout]

...

Some pretty annoying design flaws in that respect. You unlock/open the doors and the mirrors fold out - using battery power. My (ICE) car they open when you start the engine.

That's not a design flaw, it's a design choice. My Mazda 6 folds/unfolds the mirrors when I lock/unlock the doors. I like it like that. It's handy for when I get 10 or 20 yards away from the car and can't remember if I locked the doors.