Talk to me about braking with the rear brake

[Trinity765]

It sounds like you're over thinking riding, do what feels right on the bike and only go as fast as you feel safe and you won't go far wrong.

Have you heard the saying "Never in the history of telling someone to calm down have they ever calmed down"? It's the same with overthinking.

[Horse]

... downhill ...

@Noggin

Any hills where you are?

And that's where trailing braking into the turn may be useful. Where on the flat you would use throttle to keep the bike settled, downhill it could accelerate quickly even with the throttle closed.

[Noggin]

It sounds like you're over thinking riding, do what feels right on the bike and only go as fast as you feel safe and you won't go far wrong.

The flip side is that not everything is coming naturally at the moment. I’ve gone from being able to ride any bike on any road totally confidently to being quite wary because I’m very aware that I no longer have the skill set of (almost) seven years ago, even tho I still feel really comfortable at speed, ok, not as fast as before, but sometimes faster than my current skill set - which is not ideal!!

Last time I borrowed this bike was 18 months ago and I did exactly what you say. Only I forgot that my skill level wasn’t the same and I came awful close to me and the bike going off the road and down a mountain.

So, for now I’m riding more gently but where I can’t remember what I used to do naturally, I’m asking questions. Once I put what is said on here together with actually riding, then I can balance things, practice them and get back some skills and confidence!!

Also, much easier when riding with other people !! Well, the sorts of people I used to ride with back in the uk!! Yesterdays riding buddy was mental!!

[Noggin]

It sounds like you're over thinking riding, do what feels right on the bike and only go as fast as you feel safe and you won't go far wrong.

Have you heard the saying "Never in the history of telling someone to calm down have they ever calmed down"? It's the same with overthinking.

TBF, I don’t agree that I’m overthinking - I’m riding fine. But sometimes I need clarification of stuff, especially on the types of roads I didn’t ride in the uk!! (See below!!)

If I was still in the uk I’d have gone riding with some trusted mates/got some lessons and sorted things out. Here it’s a bit different - and lessons seem to be done with the instructor in a car . When I go down to see some friends in La Creuse, I will try and get out with Phill a bit and he’ll help sort things I know. But where I am I’m very solo

... downhill ...

@Noggin

Any hills where you are?

And that's where trailing braking into the turn may be useful. Where on the flat you would use throttle to keep the bike settled, downhill it could accelerate quickly even with the throttle closed.

I did realise last night that I don’t ever remember doing roads like zigzag hill back there. Now I live at the top of something like that but on Olympic style steroids!!!

The main reason I asked about the braking was to stop the pain in my arm. But actually I think it will really help with the hairpins , the most hairpins I rode in the uk were Cawell, Mallory and Pembrey!

[Yorick]

Just use the engine braking. Works the same.

[Horse]

Just use the engine braking. Works the same.

Yup, even of two strokes, it's the only way

[iansoady]

You do mention you ride with your toes on the rests. Why not try with your insteps instead, which will make the reach to the lever that much easier to achieve? I've never understood this fashion myself as you're for ever having to shuffle about to brake or change gear.

[Noggin]

Just use the engine braking. Works the same.

Come out here and show me on the mountain hairpins

You do mention you ride with your toes on the rests. Why not try with your insteps instead, which will make the reach to the lever that much easier to achieve? I've never understood this fashion myself as you're for ever having to shuffle about to brake or change gear.

I got taught the toes on pegs when I started. Probably cos the guy that taught me was an ex racer, but he also knew my goal was trackdays and maybe racing. So I guess that's where it started.

Thing is that now I just feel so much more comfortable with my toes on the pegs than my insteps. Even if I do have insteps on the pegs, I do still have to reach for the levers, so maybe it doesn't make too much difference. I find cornering more comfortable on my toes. But, maybe I'll try moving my feet down a bit.



I had a look at the brake and gear lever set ups and I'm not sure I can move anything to make them closer (I struggle to hit second from first sometimes, I get neutral, and think it's because my boot doesn't quite reach as far as it should - ok for the other gear changes, just from 1 - 2 is a bit of a stretch!!

The bike is a 2008 CBF1000 (well, first registered in 2008 )

[Yorick]

Just use the engine braking. Works the same.

Come out here and show me on the mountain hairpins

In that snow?

[Noggin]

Just use the engine braking. Works the same.

Come out here and show me on the mountain hairpins

In that snow?

No snow on the roads now!! Bit foggy right now, but no snow

[Horse]

You do mention you ride with your toes on the rests. Why not try with your insteps instead, which will make the reach to the lever that much easier to achieve? I've never understood this fashion myself as you're for ever having to shuffle about to brake or change gear.

Thing is that now I just feel so much more comfortable with my toes on the pegs than my insteps. Even if I do have insteps on the pegs, I do still have to reach for the levers

How do you change gear?

Anyway, cornering with the ball of your foot on the 'rest is fine. Just slide them back once you've finished setting up (speed and gear) before tipping in.

And if you can't reach the rear brake, do you use it at all? Whether slow speed or trail braking. How?

[Noggin]

You do mention you ride with your toes on the rests. Why not try with your insteps instead, which will make the reach to the lever that much easier to achieve? I've never understood this fashion myself as you're for ever having to shuffle about to brake or change gear.

Thing is that now I just feel so much more comfortable with my toes on the pegs than my insteps. Even if I do have insteps on the pegs, I do still have to reach for the levers

How do you change gear?

Anyway, cornering with the ball of your foot on the 'rest is fine. Just slide them back once you've finished setting up (speed and gear) before tipping in.

And if you can't reach the rear brake, do you use it at all? Whether slow speed or trail braking. How?

I can reach both levers, but I have to push my foot forward (reach) to do the 1 - 2 gear change to have enough force to ensure 2nd gear and not neutral!!

Equally I can reach the rear brake - it's just not as close to the boot as I'd like!

I've ridden to the valley and back today and managed not to use the front brake at all !! I KNOW that's not the solution, but figured a gentle bimble down and back would give me a chance to try and get the muscle memory back on using the rear brake!!

I'll have a try with putting my instep on hte peg when I go out tomorrow afternoon. Or keep moving it down from toes on the peg to flat for reaching the levers!!

[Horse]

I'll have a try with putting my instep on hte peg when I go out tomorrow afternoon. Or keep moving it down from toes on the peg to flat for reaching the levers!!

Go for a 'normal' ride, get relaxed into it.

Then take the edge off your speed and start to be conscious of what you do, when.

Once you're clear on that, you can start changing.

But! Trying to consciously do something different will need more thinking time, and so distance.

[gremlin]

I know, I know - 99.9% of bikers don't ever use the rear brake and it's basically useless!!!

I'll have you know, young lady, that I'm a heavy user of the back brake, but then again, I'm a bit of a city boy, and slow riding demands delicate use of the Holy Trinity: back brake, clutch & throttle. Amen.

I'm kinda with the Big Cheese: you're thinking too much about the theory of riding. Think all you like about when to use the back brake, but it's more how the bike feels when you do use it. You give it a load of welly, you'll feel it lock up. Caress it round a bend to scrub a bit of speed off, it'll feel fine and do what you want it to do. Same when filtering/low speed, more back than front when you're slowed down, bit more back brake to temper the throttle when you want to crawl forward.
Nothing's binary and much of it can't be conveyed in words. Just gotta work out what feels right for you on that particular bike.

[Noggin]

I know, I know - 99.9% of bikers don't ever use the rear brake and it's basically useless!!!

I'll have you know, young lady, that I'm a heavy user of the back brake, but then again, I'm a bit of a city boy, and slow riding demands delicate use of the Holy Trinity: back brake, clutch & throttle. Amen.

I'm kinda with the Big Cheese: you're thinking too much about the theory of riding. Think all you like about when to use the back brake, but it's more how the bike feels when you do use it. You give it a load of welly, you'll feel it lock up. Caress it round a bend to scrub a bit of speed off, it'll feel fine and do what you want it to do. Same when filtering/low speed, more back than front when you're slowed down, bit more back brake to temper the throttle when you want to crawl forward.
Nothing's binary and much of it can't be conveyed in words. Just gotta work out what feels right for you on that particular bike.

TBF, I wrote that bit cos when I was asking about the rear brake on the Monster it seemed like everyone was telling me not to worry as they were overrated and I didn't need it!!:lol:

I suppose I'm doing a bit of thinking about the theory of these things because I never have, and I don't really know how to relearn any other way since I don't have anyone to ride with like the guys that taught me originally I don't think the same way ON the bike. I do put stuff into practice, but I don't 'worry' all the time I"m riding.

But, either way, it has massively helped me. I get to ride and understand what I'm doing and feeling a bit more than before. It does feel really weird cos that is NOT how I have ever learnt before. I prefer the original practical way TBH!!!

But the gap of so many years has really messed with my head about how I used to ride. Thing is, I can't ride the same way here because I need to be a lot more careful of my metal joint! And that is in my head a bit sometimes!!

Also that if I fall off on the left knee there's a good chance that will become a metal joint too!! So there's a lot to think about off the bike. But I do try to just concentrate on riding when I'm on the bike Equally I do have to think about some of the stuff here a little bit to put it into practice!!


Oh - and thank you for the 'young lady' bit

[Skub]

Another factor is,lots of bikes have a rear brake setup which offers very little feel,quite often there is a caliper/master cylinder mismatch which makes the brake crap. I dunno if the manufacturers have a reason for this,but it is very common.

[The Spin Doctor]

I'm kinda with the Big Cheese: you're thinking too much about the theory of riding. Think all you like about when to use the back brake, but it's more how the bike feels when you do use it. You give it a load of welly, you'll feel it lock up. Caress it round a bend to scrub a bit of speed off, it'll feel fine and do what you want it to do. Same when filtering/low speed, more back than front when you're slowed down, bit more back brake to temper the throttle when you want to crawl forward.

I love the 'overthinking the theory' line... followed by a bunch of braking theory...

[gremlin]

I'm kinda with the Big Cheese: you're thinking too much about the theory of riding. Think all you like about when to use the back brake, but it's more how the bike feels when you do use it. You give it a load of welly, you'll feel it lock up. Caress it round a bend to scrub a bit of speed off, it'll feel fine and do what you want it to do. Same when filtering/low speed, more back than front when you're slowed down, bit more back brake to temper the throttle when you want to crawl forward.

I love the 'overthinking the theory' line... followed by a bunch of braking theory...

Yes but, nobody's ever listened to anything I've had to say before.

[The Spin Doctor]

Yes but, nobody's ever listened to anything I've had to say before.

First time for everything

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

I'm kinda with the Big Cheese: you're thinking too much about the theory of riding. Think all you like about when to use the back brake, but it's more how the bike feels when you do use it. You give it a load of welly, you'll feel it lock up. Caress it round a bend to scrub a bit of speed off, it'll feel fine and do what you want it to do. Same when filtering/low speed, more back than front when you're slowed down, bit more back brake to temper the throttle when you want to crawl forward.

I love the 'overthinking the theory' line... followed by a bunch of braking theory...

Yes but, nobody's ever listened to anything I've had to say before.

It sounds more like Swiss Tony, "Using the back brake is like making love to a beautiful woman, lovingly caress the brake while feeling her reaction."