Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

[Count Steer]

New charging points all have to accept "normal" payment methods now without requiring sign up. There's also standardisation of charging cables. You can thank the EU

It's a wonder that USB and HDMI became standards without the EU first mandating them.

Would that be USB A, B, 3.0, Mini A, Mini B, Micro A, Micro B or Micro B Super Speed?

[Kneerly Down]

I have been thinking about hydrogen fuel cell cars and that I'd be much more interested if they could put in a bigger battery and have, say, 20 mile range on battery able to be charged at home from the grid and have the hydrogen fuel cell for range extending, especially given they have to have a battery within the electrical arrangement anyway.
As it is, the current Toyota Mirai only has a 1.2kWh battery, so in effect half a PylonTech US2000C so probably a fair bit less than £500 worth of Li-ion battery.

[Kneerly Down]

Would that be USB A, B, 3.0, Mini A, Mini B, Micro A, Micro B or Micro B Super Speed?

Are you saying if the EU got involved we wouldn't have had progress on the capabilities?

[Asian Boss]

For free, for fun.

That's what Dafydd always says to the sex workers in the far east.

[Pirahna]

I have been thinking about hydrogen fuel cell cars

Shell closed their hydrogen filling stations last month, eleven left to choose from.

https://www.electrive.com/2022/10/18/sh ... in-the-uk/

[Asian Boss]

My FiL (an accidental farmer) has been offered more than a field is worth for a 20 year lease to put panels on it.

I can't work out why the energy company wouldn't just buy it outright for less money. Assume it's some tax fiddle.

I'm currently considering a couple of fields (£70k-£100k each for 3-5 acres) to plant trees, I can't find any woodland to buy near me, so I thought I'd create my own, it's currently used for arable crops. It might not be any good for my lifetime (as a woods to enjoy) but my kids/grandkids will benefit from it, I'm aiming to leave a small sustainable estate to my kids, with the ability to grow their own food, take water from a natural spring on my land, and coppice woodland for fuel (if it's not banned by the clean air goons by then).

I'm about to look into grants or carbon credits, I was going to do it anyway, but someone suggested I could get a grant or return on it, so it's a bonus if I do. I hadn't considered using it for solar, but then I'd lose the use of the land.

Consider speaking to a planning consultant if you're thinking of scaled solar.

I'm currently covering hospital car parks with raised up PV. Under the PSDS there's canny money to be had. Land the contract and secure the grant then get the goons on the tools to whack it all in. Third party everything and stick on a margin. How much free money do you want?

[Kneerly Down]

Shell closed their hydrogen filling stations last month, eleven left to choose from.

https://www.electrive.com/2022/10/18/sh ... in-the-uk/

I was going to say they'd missed the Orkney Hydrogen refuelling station, but thinking about it, that might only be for council vehicles.
Anyway, even more reason for Hydrogen cars to have a rechargeable moderately sized battery in them

[Mr. Dazzle]

I have been thinking about hydrogen fuel cell cars and that I'd be much more interested if they could put in a bigger battery and have, say, 20 mile range on battery able to be charged at home from the grid and have the hydrogen fuel cell for range extending, especially given they have to have a battery within the electrical arrangement anyway.
As it is, the current Toyota Mirai only has a 1.2kWh battery, so in effect half a PylonTech US2000C so probably a fair bit less than £500 worth of Li-ion battery.

I've mentioned a few times that I reckon any Hydrogen FC car will always have a battery of some size. Its similar to ICE hybrids really, FCs work best at a steady high load, so you have a FC which runs at a high fraction of its capability and then a battery for peaks and troughs. Fuel cells also can't "run backwards and make fuel" as my old boss used to phrase it. Batteries can.

The other trouble with fuel cells is that they're still not that efficient. They might get up to 60% efficient, whereas a battery seldom drops below 90% and will often get to >98%.

You also need to physically transport hydrogen about, both during production/sale and then when its in the car. The former of those in particular has a massive cost (both in terms of emissions and £) which pure leccy doesn't have. Obviously electric infrastructure isn't free, but its consiserably less bound by physical limitations.

All of the above is why I think hydrogen power will remain fairly niche.

[Taipan]

Back to the Evoque and I see this quoted, "Econ/EV range:141mpg/34 miles", I don't understand what that actually means?

As above, that'll just be the 'official' economy figure and the electric-only range.

Effectively this means that if you never leave the house without a full charge and never go more than 34 miles then you should expect an equivalent of 141mpg.

Lots of caveats there though. The 34 miles is, like all quoted figures, an ideal one and won't necessarily be real-world. Depends on driving style, plus temperature is a huge factor in battery efficiency. Also, where interior heat is 'free' in an ICE (or rather, the by-product of an inefficient engine), it's all paid for in an EV! So in the winter, with efficiency down and heating up, you'll get a lot less.

Also, even ignoring the way it's measured (see previous post) the 'mpg' equivalent is a pretty wild estimate, given that it'll depend on your personal electricity price and the current fuel price, both of which are a little unpredictable currently! Some people are paying the 'standard' 35p/kWh currently, some have a cheap nighttime rate of 8p, some have solar and it might be nearly zero, some will have a nighttime tariff but charge during the day at 40-50p, some will use public chargers at 50-100p. Clearly with a variance of 8-100p/kWh and fuel prices changing daily, it's pretty hard to nail down an equivalent mpg.

Thanks for your replies. A PHEV won't suit me at this point. Visiting my Daughter is a 70 mile round trip and one I like to use my car for and not the wifes. I feel with a PHEV id be driving inefficiently and wasting fuel, so i'd end up taking the wifes car instead. Its too much money to have sitting on the drive as a town car only, so a dirty diesel it is!

Went to my Daughters in the heavy diesel Velar. I didn't think that was too bad at all!

[v8-powered]

So, Fisker Ocean - anyone have opinions?

Look like a sensible priced lecky SUV. Haven't heard anything of the company for years and that was only through racing....

[Mr. Dazzle]

Seems like a properly big change of tack? IIRC Fisker designed the DB9 and then formed his own company making mega money (hybrid) exotics. So a ~£40k family wagon seems like a departure.

I do worry for these EV start ups, they seem to be banking on being a bit different and trying to catch the OEMs while they're sleeping. I can say that the OEMs are definitely awake now and I struggle to see how you'll compete with their R&D budget, buying power and general established-ness by selling everyman cars.

Could be wrong though.

[Count Steer]

I do worry for these EV start ups, they seem to be banking on being a bit different and trying to catch the OEMs while they're sleeping. I can say that the OEMs are definitely awake now and I struggle to see how you'll compete with their R&D budget, buying power and general established-ness by selling everyman cars.

Could be wrong though.

They may be pitching for design contracts/subcontracts?

[Pirahna]

Harry Metcalfe posted this earlier. I've got a T6 Kombi and think VW could have done better if they'd made the rear seats removeable with a flat floor load space same as mine. Not that I'm about to drop £60k on a new electric car.

[Pirahna]

Tonight's Late Brake Show offering.

[Wossname]

Re EV resale values: I've just posted in the tech thread, where I admit to a (small) degree of Ludd. It seems to have passed on to my offspring, as has Potty's technophilia!

We have 3 kids, all married. Their 6 cars are aged 17, 16, 20, 16, 14, and 21 years. They all start and stop, they've all got heaters, are comfy, sit at 80 and get around 45-50mpg. Mileages range from around 80K to 300K. They're all still pretty reliable, fixable with a hammer (well...), and sellable tho not for much money obv.

Daughter's Polo GTi (21yo) has just died at 222K, and she's about to embark on EV - leased over 3 years. Her needs mean it'll probably work OK for her. But how could you sell that car at 8 years old? It'll be worthless because of battery issues, so will have to be discarded - scrapped. So she'll lease - but the car won't last, unlike all 6 of the old ones. How is that environmentally symathetic?

[Slenver]

But how could you sell that car at 8 years old? It'll be worthless because of battery issues, so will have to be discarded - scrapped.

Will it? Why?

A simple search of 8+ year old EVs on Autotrader shows they hold their value very well.

Cheapest car-sized EV for sale is a 10 year-old Nissan Leaf for £6,200. The oldest 8 yo BMW i3s are around £14k and same-age Teslas start at around £30k.

EVs are obviously a different proposition than ICE cars in terms of longevity and/or costs to keep going, but the whole 'they get thrown away after 5 years' myth is just that. And don't forget that these first-gen cars had a tiny range compared to what's being sold now so current cars now will be worth a lot more in 8 years than these are.

[Mr. Dazzle]

The (sad) reality is that nearly all cars get thrown away after 10 years or so, it's not an EV exclusive thing.

There's always a person who crops up with "I've got a 1899 Ford Cortina which 6 million million miles on the clock and I can't have an EV because the range isn't good enough to visit my Granny on the moon at the drop of a hat". Well in that case, no an EV isn't your bag right now. But you're the exception

[Cousin Jack]

The (sad) reality is that nearly all cars get thrown away after 10 years or so, it's not an EV exclusive thing.

There's always a person who crops up with "I've got a 1899 Ford Cortina which 6 million million miles on the clock and I can't have an EV because the range isn't good enough to visit my Granny on the moon at the drop of a hat". Well in that case, no an EV isn't your bag right now. But you're the exception

Thank you.

[Horse]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63660321

Electric cars will no longer be exempt from vehicle excise duty from April 2025, the chancellor has said.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Mr Hunt said: "Because the OBR (Office for Budget Responsibility) forecasts half of all new vehicles will be electric by 2025, to make our motoring tax system fairer I've decided that from then, electric vehicles will no longer be exempt from vehicle excise duty."

Seems like that particular inventive worked quite well.

I wonder what the rate will be. At present emissions play a part, I wonder how they'll decide on EVs.