Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

[Kneerly Down]

The charge point isn't controlled by the company who's car park it's on.

I was told it costs about £30k to install a 50kw DC charger. They want to earn their money back and profit.

My son's chocolate and coffee shop has a 50kW EV charger at it.
AFAIK he owns it - he controls the price, gets the revenue and pays for the leccy - but I think it has conditions on whose network it is connected to given the (possibly 100%) subsidised installation...before he owned it.
I'll have to look at the contracts at some point to see if he could go with a different provider or even just take the payments by card directly.

The current operator had it on free vend for a while even though he asked them to put it at 30p/kWh so he ended up losing £1500 on it last year. Still trying to recoup the money due to their error.
Fairly sure they are also putting it on free vend when people ring up to say there's an issue with their cards so he may well still be losing money on it.

[Count Steer]

New charging points all have to accept "normal" payment methods now without requiring sign up. There's also standardisation of charging cables. You can thank the EU

They sound sensible. We ought to join!

(Can we have some of the French services/aires too? )

[Kneerly Down]

The demand already is way above the number of fast chargers available - rare there's one free, if not a queue. Like I said, it's worse now than a year ago when I got my Leaf. 'Charge anxiety' on every trip that needs a charge.

My works office in the big city (Inv) has quite a few EV chargers on free vend but that's 70 miles away so it wouldn't be worth heading in even with a full on electric. It'd be rude not to top up when I have to go in though!

If they can get a free vend EV charger in the local office (15 miles away) I might even be tempted to go in once in a while.

[Couchy]

We install plenty of 25 - 150kw DC chargers. The 25kw ones start at £15k plus installation. The bigger ones can be an easy £50k install and more. Most have a new DNO connection and all in can be £100k or so. Gotta put a healthy margin on them. You’d need to see £100 margin a day to cover the finance and plenty do way more than that.
We run several 7kw charge points and they soon pay for themselves.

[Kneerly Down]

New charging points all have to accept "normal" payment methods now without requiring sign up. There's also standardisation of charging cables. You can thank the EU

It's a wonder that USB and HDMI became standards without the EU first mandating them.
I was going to blame the EU for 'EuroScart' connectors but I think that lies solely with the French.

[Count Steer]

New charging points all have to accept "normal" payment methods now without requiring sign up. There's also standardisation of charging cables. You can thank the EU

It's a wonder that USB and HDMI became standards without the EU first mandating them.

Would that be USB A, B, 3.0, Mini A, Mini B, Micro A, Micro B or Micro B Super Speed?

[Kneerly Down]

I have been thinking about hydrogen fuel cell cars and that I'd be much more interested if they could put in a bigger battery and have, say, 20 mile range on battery able to be charged at home from the grid and have the hydrogen fuel cell for range extending, especially given they have to have a battery within the electrical arrangement anyway.
As it is, the current Toyota Mirai only has a 1.2kWh battery, so in effect half a PylonTech US2000C so probably a fair bit less than £500 worth of Li-ion battery.

[Kneerly Down]

Would that be USB A, B, 3.0, Mini A, Mini B, Micro A, Micro B or Micro B Super Speed?

Are you saying if the EU got involved we wouldn't have had progress on the capabilities?

[Asian Boss]

For free, for fun.

That's what Dafydd always says to the sex workers in the far east.

[Pirahna]

I have been thinking about hydrogen fuel cell cars

Shell closed their hydrogen filling stations last month, eleven left to choose from.

https://www.electrive.com/2022/10/18/sh ... in-the-uk/

[Asian Boss]

My FiL (an accidental farmer) has been offered more than a field is worth for a 20 year lease to put panels on it.

I can't work out why the energy company wouldn't just buy it outright for less money. Assume it's some tax fiddle.

I'm currently considering a couple of fields (£70k-£100k each for 3-5 acres) to plant trees, I can't find any woodland to buy near me, so I thought I'd create my own, it's currently used for arable crops. It might not be any good for my lifetime (as a woods to enjoy) but my kids/grandkids will benefit from it, I'm aiming to leave a small sustainable estate to my kids, with the ability to grow their own food, take water from a natural spring on my land, and coppice woodland for fuel (if it's not banned by the clean air goons by then).

I'm about to look into grants or carbon credits, I was going to do it anyway, but someone suggested I could get a grant or return on it, so it's a bonus if I do. I hadn't considered using it for solar, but then I'd lose the use of the land.

Consider speaking to a planning consultant if you're thinking of scaled solar.

I'm currently covering hospital car parks with raised up PV. Under the PSDS there's canny money to be had. Land the contract and secure the grant then get the goons on the tools to whack it all in. Third party everything and stick on a margin. How much free money do you want?

[Kneerly Down]

Shell closed their hydrogen filling stations last month, eleven left to choose from.

https://www.electrive.com/2022/10/18/sh ... in-the-uk/

I was going to say they'd missed the Orkney Hydrogen refuelling station, but thinking about it, that might only be for council vehicles.
Anyway, even more reason for Hydrogen cars to have a rechargeable moderately sized battery in them

[Mr. Dazzle]

I have been thinking about hydrogen fuel cell cars and that I'd be much more interested if they could put in a bigger battery and have, say, 20 mile range on battery able to be charged at home from the grid and have the hydrogen fuel cell for range extending, especially given they have to have a battery within the electrical arrangement anyway.
As it is, the current Toyota Mirai only has a 1.2kWh battery, so in effect half a PylonTech US2000C so probably a fair bit less than £500 worth of Li-ion battery.

I've mentioned a few times that I reckon any Hydrogen FC car will always have a battery of some size. Its similar to ICE hybrids really, FCs work best at a steady high load, so you have a FC which runs at a high fraction of its capability and then a battery for peaks and troughs. Fuel cells also can't "run backwards and make fuel" as my old boss used to phrase it. Batteries can.

The other trouble with fuel cells is that they're still not that efficient. They might get up to 60% efficient, whereas a battery seldom drops below 90% and will often get to >98%.

You also need to physically transport hydrogen about, both during production/sale and then when its in the car. The former of those in particular has a massive cost (both in terms of emissions and £) which pure leccy doesn't have. Obviously electric infrastructure isn't free, but its consiserably less bound by physical limitations.

All of the above is why I think hydrogen power will remain fairly niche.

[Taipan]

Back to the Evoque and I see this quoted, "Econ/EV range:141mpg/34 miles", I don't understand what that actually means?

As above, that'll just be the 'official' economy figure and the electric-only range.

Effectively this means that if you never leave the house without a full charge and never go more than 34 miles then you should expect an equivalent of 141mpg.

Lots of caveats there though. The 34 miles is, like all quoted figures, an ideal one and won't necessarily be real-world. Depends on driving style, plus temperature is a huge factor in battery efficiency. Also, where interior heat is 'free' in an ICE (or rather, the by-product of an inefficient engine), it's all paid for in an EV! So in the winter, with efficiency down and heating up, you'll get a lot less.

Also, even ignoring the way it's measured (see previous post) the 'mpg' equivalent is a pretty wild estimate, given that it'll depend on your personal electricity price and the current fuel price, both of which are a little unpredictable currently! Some people are paying the 'standard' 35p/kWh currently, some have a cheap nighttime rate of 8p, some have solar and it might be nearly zero, some will have a nighttime tariff but charge during the day at 40-50p, some will use public chargers at 50-100p. Clearly with a variance of 8-100p/kWh and fuel prices changing daily, it's pretty hard to nail down an equivalent mpg.

Thanks for your replies. A PHEV won't suit me at this point. Visiting my Daughter is a 70 mile round trip and one I like to use my car for and not the wifes. I feel with a PHEV id be driving inefficiently and wasting fuel, so i'd end up taking the wifes car instead. Its too much money to have sitting on the drive as a town car only, so a dirty diesel it is!

Went to my Daughters in the heavy diesel Velar. I didn't think that was too bad at all!

[v8-powered]

So, Fisker Ocean - anyone have opinions?

Look like a sensible priced lecky SUV. Haven't heard anything of the company for years and that was only through racing....

[Mr. Dazzle]

Seems like a properly big change of tack? IIRC Fisker designed the DB9 and then formed his own company making mega money (hybrid) exotics. So a ~£40k family wagon seems like a departure.

I do worry for these EV start ups, they seem to be banking on being a bit different and trying to catch the OEMs while they're sleeping. I can say that the OEMs are definitely awake now and I struggle to see how you'll compete with their R&D budget, buying power and general established-ness by selling everyman cars.

Could be wrong though.

[Count Steer]

I do worry for these EV start ups, they seem to be banking on being a bit different and trying to catch the OEMs while they're sleeping. I can say that the OEMs are definitely awake now and I struggle to see how you'll compete with their R&D budget, buying power and general established-ness by selling everyman cars.

Could be wrong though.

They may be pitching for design contracts/subcontracts?

[Pirahna]

Harry Metcalfe posted this earlier. I've got a T6 Kombi and think VW could have done better if they'd made the rear seats removeable with a flat floor load space same as mine. Not that I'm about to drop £60k on a new electric car.

[Pirahna]

Tonight's Late Brake Show offering.

[Wossname]

Re EV resale values: I've just posted in the tech thread, where I admit to a (small) degree of Ludd. It seems to have passed on to my offspring, as has Potty's technophilia!

We have 3 kids, all married. Their 6 cars are aged 17, 16, 20, 16, 14, and 21 years. They all start and stop, they've all got heaters, are comfy, sit at 80 and get around 45-50mpg. Mileages range from around 80K to 300K. They're all still pretty reliable, fixable with a hammer (well...), and sellable tho not for much money obv.

Daughter's Polo GTi (21yo) has just died at 222K, and she's about to embark on EV - leased over 3 years. Her needs mean it'll probably work OK for her. But how could you sell that car at 8 years old? It'll be worthless because of battery issues, so will have to be discarded - scrapped. So she'll lease - but the car won't last, unlike all 6 of the old ones. How is that environmentally symathetic?