Back protector now mandatory...

[dern]

Some will have airbag leathers. They don't wear back protectors, so is the airbag allowed the position of 'back protector' even though technically it's not..

Have emailed MSV to ask about air bags.

They came back to me and said that any airbag jacket that has an integrated back protector like the Helite Turtle 2 will be fine.

[weeksy]

Some will have airbag leathers. They don't wear back protectors, so is the airbag allowed the position of 'back protector' even though technically it's not..

Have emailed MSV to ask about air bags.

They came back to me and said that any airbag jacket that has an integrated back protector like the Helite Turtle 2 will be fine.

I don;t know much about the suits as to what they do or don't have.

I'm guessing @Alan PBTD will have to do some reading up though !

[Yorick]

There are no stats to say how good back protectors are.

Dunno about that, i bet there's loads.

It's probably the reason that chest protectors (and back) are mandatory in MotoGP for example.

Simple fact is, loads on here do trackday, loads on here WILL do trackdays next year...

Therefore, loads on here will be subject to the rules

Of these people, some already have them fitted in their leathers, some already have an aftermarket, some may not have one at all.

Some will have airbag leathers. They don't wear back protectors, so is the airbag allowed the position of 'back protector' even though technically it's not..

But all of them need to know what the criteria are to pass and be allowed out. because you can't risk turning up and being turned away.

That's why this discussion is interesting.

I know. But when folk say you need to be an idiot not to wear one, things need putting in perspective.

My estimate in safety out of 10.

For track use.

10 helmet.
8 gloves
8 boots
8 knee protectors.
6 elbow protectors.
4 shoulder protectors
3 shin protectors
2 back protectors

[weeksy]

There are no stats to say how good back protectors are.

Dunno about that, i bet there's loads.

It's probably the reason that chest protectors (and back) are mandatory in MotoGP for example.

Simple fact is, loads on here do trackday, loads on here WILL do trackdays next year...

Therefore, loads on here will be subject to the rules

Of these people, some already have them fitted in their leathers, some already have an aftermarket, some may not have one at all.

Some will have airbag leathers. They don't wear back protectors, so is the airbag allowed the position of 'back protector' even though technically it's not..

But all of them need to know what the criteria are to pass and be allowed out. because you can't risk turning up and being turned away.

That's why this discussion is interesting.

I know. But when folk say you need to be an idiot not to wear one, things need putting in perspective.

My estimate in safety out of 10

10 helmet.
8 gloves
8 boots
8 knee protectors.
6 elbow protectors.
4 shoulder protectors
3 shin protectors
2 back protectors

Yes but different people think differently. I don't always wear boots... often trainers... my jacket is lacking in most bits of armour....

You could argue you could do without a hand... but shattering your spine is more drastic ?

[KungFooBob]

11 Not falling off in the first place.

[Skub]

My logic would dictate,your head and spine are two areas worth protecting above all others.

[Yorick]

Dunno about that, i bet there's loads.

It's probably the reason that chest protectors (and back) are mandatory in MotoGP for example.

Simple fact is, loads on here do trackday, loads on here WILL do trackdays next year...

Therefore, loads on here will be subject to the rules

Of these people, some already have them fitted in their leathers, some already have an aftermarket, some may not have one at all.

Some will have airbag leathers. They don't wear back protectors, so is the airbag allowed the position of 'back protector' even though technically it's not..

But all of them need to know what the criteria are to pass and be allowed out. because you can't risk turning up and being turned away.

That's why this discussion is interesting.

I know. But when folk say you need to be an idiot not to wear one, things need putting in perspective.

My estimate in safety out of 10

10 helmet.
8 gloves
8 boots
8 knee protectors.
6 elbow protectors.
4 shoulder protectors
3 shin protectors
2 back protectors

Yes but different people think differently. I don't always wear boots... often trainers... my jacket is lacking in most bits of armour....

You could argue you could do without a hand... but shattering your spine is more drastic ?

Sorry. My list was track based. I rarely wear leathers nowadays. Except when I go with the really fast lads.

[Supermofo]

I've broken my back twice

This is getting silly now where I could tell who's posted without evening seeing the username

When I was a kids my folks always called me accident prone. If only they'd known!

[Alan PBTD]

Personally speaking having seen the protection both a back and chest protector can provide I'd certainly mark them miles more then a 2 and personally know one rider who owes his life to said protection. I often wear my Knox BP on the Harley - and sounds silly but certainly have got it on for longer rides.
Bring the thread back to a even keel we are seeking further clarification on this point but at this stage I don't think the actual qualification of what constitutes a BP is in question but weather the ride is wearing ''one'' when on track at a particular time. I'm of the opinion, when questioning what is and what isn't a BP one should always wear the best available.
I feel - and having spoken to colleagues at NL we - as TDO's have to come up with a simple / fast / efficient procedure of policing / enforcing this ruling so - again ideally they can be checked every time a rider enters the circuit. And further on the Marshall's / Staff concerned are fully trained / made aware to implement this ruling. If, after a incident situation, a rider is found not to be wearing one and all all the pre stated risk assements / procedures have been followed and basically the riders ''forgot'' any PL would fall on the rider and not the TDO.
@ PBTD's we have come up with an idea and are working with said people to identify any potential pitfalls. The informative / notice of this ruling is the simple bit.
So going back to the beginning I'm interested in what u lot think could be a system for checking you've got one on. Broom handles are exempt...But our lady Marshall's are all up for u lot getting to the Assembly Area topless..

[dern]

I've no idea how you could achieve this given some of them are built in to jackets. Maybe it's only something you can do on trust by saying that you know it's your responsibility to wear one and that you accept that responsibility and indicate that you do when you put the wristband on. Can't see how you can do it otherwise.

[Alan PBTD]

Alas...''Maybe it's only something you can do on trust '' - We ''trust'' riders to make sure their bikes pass the noise limits but in the real world...

And unfortunately ''trust'' isn't recognized when the Judge looks at it !

[weeksy]

Personally speaking having seen the protection both a back and chest protector can provide I'd certainly mark them miles more then a 2 and personally know one rider who owes his life to said protection. I often wear my Knox BP on the Harley - and sounds silly but certainly have got it on for longer rides.
Bring the thread back to a even keel we are seeking further clarification on this point but at this stage I don't think the actual qualification of what constitutes a BP is in question but weather the ride is wearing ''one'' when on track at a particular time. I'm of the opinion, when questioning what is and what isn't a BP one should always wear the best available.
I feel - and having spoken to colleagues at NL we - as TDO's have to come up with a simple / fast / efficient procedure of policing / enforcing this ruling so - again ideally they can be checked every time a rider enters the circuit. And further on the Marshall's / Staff concerned are fully trained / made aware to implement this ruling. If, after a incident situation, a rider is found not to be wearing one and all all the pre stated risk assements / procedures have been followed and basically the riders ''forgot'' any PL would fall on the rider and not the TDO.
@ PBTD's we have come up with an idea and are working with said people to identify any potential pitfalls. The informative / notice of this ruling is the simple bit.
So going back to the beginning I'm interested in what u lot think could be a system for checking you've got one on. Broom handles are exempt...But our lady Marshall's are all up for u lot getting to the Assembly Area topless..

Have they seen us without tops on ????

Does it change how leathers are removed in an accident ?

[Yorick]

I'd wager that they are more useful on the roads .
They are useful when you hit a stationary object like road furniture and cars etc.
Not a regularly thing on track.

[dern]

Alas...''Maybe it's only something you can do on trust '' - We ''trust'' riders to make sure their bikes pass the noise limits but in the real world...

And unfortunately ''trust'' isn't recognized when the Judge looks at it !

In that case a baseball bat to the small of the back would probably incentivise

[Skub]

I'd wager that they are more useful on the roads .
They are useful when you hit a stationary object like road furniture and cars etc.
Not a regularly thing on track.

They could be useful in classes with a big entry. We saw quite a few riders this year falling off mid pack and being hit by other bikes.

[Tricky]

I'd wager that they are more useful on the roads .
They are useful when you hit a stationary object like road furniture and cars etc.
Not a regularly thing on track.

Or something hits you, which it very much can do on track, if there are other riders nearby, or even when there aren't- I was wearing a full length Knox race BP when I , err, slipped off the 390 at Pembrey this year and the little minx hit me in the back on our way along the tarmac and broke 2 of my ribs .
I of course don't know if it would have done more damage if I hadn't been wearing the BP, but I am 99.9% sure it wouldn't have done less...

[Bigyin]

They could be useful in classes with a big entry. We saw quite a few riders this year falling off mid pack and being hit by other bikes.

In all honesty i have seen a few fatalities during my race involvement and all bar 1 was a fallen rider being run over by a following rider. I know the 3 i was involved there and then with all had back protectors on. None however had chest armour which is becoming a more recent thing (now mandatory in top flight racing) and all had injuries to the chest and/or neck that caused the fatal injury. The back protector will save some injury but wont solve all problems

[Noggin]

They could be useful in classes with a big entry. We saw quite a few riders this year falling off mid pack and being hit by other bikes.

In all honesty i have seen a few fatalities during my race involvement and all bar 1 was a fallen rider being run over by a following rider. I know the 3 i was involved there and then with all had back protectors on. None however had chest armour which is becoming a more recent thing (now mandatory in top flight racing) and all had injuries to the chest and/or neck that caused the fatal injury. The back protector will save some injury but wont solve all problems

There's only one way to solve all the injury problems on track. But we none of us want that!!!

[Noggin]

I've broken my back twice

This is getting silly now where I could tell who's posted without evening seeing the username

When I was a kids my folks always called me accident prone. If only they'd known!

My nickname was Calamity Jane Well, that was the polite version. Family regularly called me stupid for being clumsy/falling!!

Weirdly, the first back break was horse riding and yet my mother would prefer I ride a horse than a motorbike (or do any other fun stuff!!). Maybe she thinks I can't break it twice due to horses or something!!

[Yorick]

I've broken my back twice

This is getting silly now where I could tell who's posted without evening seeing the username

When I was a kids my folks always called me accident prone. If only they'd known!

My nickname was Calamity Jane Well, that was the polite version. Family regularly called me stupid for being clumsy/falling!!

Aw. That's so unfair.
They were very cruel