Quality of new Japanese motorcycles

[MingtheMerciless]

A neighbour has just got a new MT09, the build quality is awful, it looks like the blind apprentice with Tourette’s was given the job of finishing and fitting the wiring loom.

Fuck the wiring loom, cunt.

Did I say something wrong?

[Yorick]

A neighbour has just got a new MT09, the build quality is awful, it looks like the blind apprentice with Tourette’s was given the job of finishing and fitting the wiring loom.

Fuck the wiring loom, cunt.

Did I say something wrong?

I replied in Tourettes.

[Potter]

for instance the CBR650 looks like a budget bike

that's because it is ?

In the early 90's the CBR600 was at the cutting edge of the new 600's war, so I think the big four were putting a lot of effort into them (Honda and Kawasaki certainly and the other two caught up soon), but with lower sales and rising costs they simply can't do it these days. All the new bikes including the flagship models are built down to a price, I've worked in manufacturing and I've seen it done, and whilst the flagship models are better they will still be designed to a budget to get through a warranty period and then it's pot luck.

I'm always disappointed when looking at new bikes, I used to look at new bikes in the early 90's and marvel over the quality, but now it's really clear there are budget compromises everywhere. It's more palatable on bikes like my Enfield that were four grand brand new and easily rival the Jap bikes - I wonder if it was built as a loss leader or whether they actually make money on them - I think having the Indian market and volume sales allowed it to happen.

IMHO as a youth/rider of the 80's and 90's the Jap bikes now are bland, there is rarely anything exciting or ground breaking, whereas every year back then the new models were jaw dropping in terms of how fast they moved on - but I suppose they were also very focussed and it was only race reps that were making the magazine covers.

[Supermofo]

Quality is definitely down across the board. Even the Firestorm I owned which was budget in places still had that 90s Honda build overall. Everything is more throw away now days and probably mainly built in the same places ie Thailand etc

Will be interesting to see what Triumph actually do at their factory now when I visit next week. I notice they've added a trip to the R&D centre and something else. I suspect cos all they actually do in Hinkley anymore is stick the Union Jacks on!

Having said that having seen matey's KTM 1290 Super Adv with 85k miles on it in all weathers I was shocked how well it had held up for a brand with perceived poor build. I would easily have believed it had 15k on less.

[weeksy]

Having said that having seen matey's KTM 1290 Super Adv with 85k miles on it in all weathers I was shocked how well it had held up for a brand with perceived poor build. I would easily have believed it had 15k on less.

In terms of actually metal hardware, components and brackets etc, KTM absolutely wipe the floor with the Japanese.... However, they do have their other quirks.

[Supermofo]

Having said that having seen matey's KTM 1290 Super Adv with 85k miles on it in all weathers I was shocked how well it had held up for a brand with perceived poor build. I would easily have believed it had 15k on less.

In terms of actually metal hardware, components and brackets etc, KTM absolutely wipe the floor with the Japanese.... However, they do have their other quirks.

Yeah it was more them I was thinking of. All the leccy magic still worked, cruise, heated grips/seats, suspension, modes, TFT etc. Which are mainly the things I've heard issues with. It's hard to stress a 1.3 litre bike engine I'd guess.

Having said that I think my 690 is ok quality for brackets/braided hoses etc but I know Taipan thought his was cack as do a few others.

[The Spin Doctor]

It's much easier (cheaper) to make a sportsbike comfortable,than it is to make a less focussed road bike handle.

Sportsbikes are the flagship models and get the quality kit. On some 'lesser' models corners are very often cut.

But how well do you need a road bike to handle?

The handling of a budget model like my XJ6 isn't up there with the R6 it's derived from and won't get close on laptimes, but it's still good enough to ground the centre stand and pegs round Cadwell AND has a seat a passenger won't instantly fall off.

And I think for a 12 year old bike it still looks in pretty good condition despite me rarely cleaning it and not using ACF50 every Sunday afternoon! There's very little corrosion, the only real issue is that the red tank is starting to fade.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Having said that having seen matey's KTM 1290 Super Adv with 85k miles on it in all weathers I was shocked how well it had held up for a brand with perceived poor build. I would easily have believed it had 15k on less.

In terms of actually metal hardware, components and brackets etc, KTM absolutely wipe the floor with the Japanese.... However, they do have their other quirks.

The impression I get is that maybe they should have invested that quality control on the stuff inside the engine

[Skub]

It's much easier (cheaper) to make a sportsbike comfortable,than it is to make a less focussed road bike handle.

Sportsbikes are the flagship models and get the quality kit. On some 'lesser' models corners are very often cut.

But how well do you need a road bike to handle?

The handling of a budget model like my XJ6 isn't up there with the R6 it's derived from and won't get close on laptimes, but it's still good enough to ground the centre stand and pegs round Cadwell AND has a seat a passenger won't instantly fall off.

And I think for a 12 year old bike it still looks in pretty good condition despite me rarely cleaning it and not using ACF50 every Sunday afternoon! There's very little corrosion, the only real issue is that the red tank is starting to fade.

Without heading into too much of a derail....I suppose the answer to that is,"the way I want".

I certainly don't want it to be dragging it's arse everywhere on the road,I don't want a bouncy castle,nor do I want rock hard suspension. My original point was,it's easier/cheaper to make a sportsbike into a comfy road bike,than to spec up a naked for the track.

With my current Z1000,I did this arse about face and has been expensive,plus the Zed will drag it's pegs long before a sportsbike. If I'd bought a ZX10R and fitted bar risers + back off the suspenders,the process would probably have been cheaper. That's all I was saying.

[Potter]

The impression I get is that maybe they should have invested that quality control on the stuff inside the engine

The lad that used to work on my KTM race engine hated them, he said they were made out of monkey metal.

[Yorick]

The impression I get is that maybe they should have invested that quality control on the stuff inside the engine

The lad that used to work on my KTM race engine hated them, he said they were made out of monkey metal.

I think they've improved. All the lads here have KTMs or Huskys and I've never heard of engine problems.
Except Freerider leccy start gear probs.

[tricol]

It will be interesting to see how my Trident copes living outside under cover this winter. I'm preparing myself for a few nuts and bolts to start oxidising, and the odd bit of plastic to fade. But that is component quality, not build quality.

I must get that shelter built....

[Nidge]

Overall I’m very impressed with the quality of my Speed Twin. The frame paint is almost enamel-like, the various brackets and fastened all seem at least as good as my 1998 Fireblade and, so far (3,000 miles in) everything works as it should. However the chain side plates and clutch adjuster thumbscrew seem to rust at the slightest hint of moisture. Easily kept at bay with regular cleaning and lubing but my mates equally new 1200 scrambler suffers the with the same

[The Spin Doctor]

I certainly don't want it to be dragging it's arse everywhere on the road

It doesn't. There was one specific bend where the combination of compression and lean angle decked it.

I don't think I've ever touched the centre stand down on the road even two up. The biggest issue is the stand hitting the deck on narrow speed bumps.

Yes, you COULD improve the forks, and I have fitted a YSS shock on the back (after 60k it was getting tired) but realistically, it does the job I wanted it to. And frankly, it'll do the job that most people would NEED it to, if they looked at it logically.

[Skub]

I certainly don't want it to be dragging it's arse everywhere on the road

It doesn't. There was one specific bend where the combination of compression and lean angle decked it.

I don't think I've ever touched the centre stand down on the road even two up. The biggest issue is the stand hitting the deck on narrow speed bumps.

Yes, you COULD improve the forks, and I have fitted a YSS shock on the back (after 60k it was getting tired) but realistically, it does the job I wanted it to. And frankly, it'll do the job that most people would NEED it to, if they looked at it logically.

That's cool,but what you want from a bike may not be what I want.

[Taipan]

I don't think its just Jap bikes that have poor quality finish. My KTMs and BMWs have been shocking as well! Actually I'd say BMW and Suzukis are the worse ones I've had. My CCMs were better than those! My 1993 Honda Bros was amazing. I rode it through through 3 winters on salty roads but it cleaned up like it had just come out of the showroom!

[The Spin Doctor]

That's cool,but what you want from a bike may not be what I want.

I'm not disputing that for one moment.

But you said: "It's much easier (cheaper) to make a sportsbike comfortable,than it is to make a less focussed road bike handle."

Yes, if you want a focused sportsbike, by all means get one. I've done the Gixxer 750 thing myself to get it out of my system. It was grin factor 10, more comfortable over a long distance than any other bike I've ever ridden (I did a gnats under 1000 miles on it in 20 hours), drank petrol like it was going out of fashion, and was a licence loser whenever I got the rev counter near the fun zone.

But my point is that for 'average' riding, there's nothing really wrong with the bum-basic XJ6.

[Skub]

But you said: "It's much easier (cheaper) to make a sportsbike comfortable,than it is to make a less focussed road bike handle."

Yep,it is.

[Bigjawa]

Deffo agree with that. But i also wonder if sometimes 'we' are asking for more than is realistic. Working on bumpy B roads and fast Silverstone for example. The Honda CB1000R i test rode honestly seemed to tick each and every box (apart from the engine configuration).

Suspension wise, it should be a doddle, just have different modes like the ESA on my Beemer, make the ability for it to be programmed to the owner's own settings.

When they build and sell budget bikes, they could offer better versions?
I'm sure that if they offered a better version that works properly for 500-1000 extra then it would sell? And the resale price would be higher?

I always wanted Suzuki to make an SV650R with a decent front end, the engine was a peach and the budget suspension let it down badly. I nearly bought a 1000K5 front end for mine.

I think the field is more even among Jap factories now. They were all pretty shit in the 70s,then Honda gained a name for quality for a time. Honda pretty much rest on their laurels now and the other three have upped their game,so there's little to choose between them.

A slight thread derail,but BMW were a quality act in the 60s and 70s,now they are inferior to most Jap bikes,yet continue to command higher prices.

Honda have a habit of making spectacular fuck ups like the VF750 then bringing out something amazing like the VFR to make up for it. 90's Honda are amazing. I bought a 1993 CBR1000F in 2008 for 600 quid with 60 odd thousand miles. I saw it yesterday, still going strong.

GS apart, BMW don't make great money, you'll pay a lot more for a Pan Euro than you'll pay for an RT of the same vintage. My 2008 K12 Arseport would be at least 1500 cheaper than something like a ZZR14 the same age.

I don't think its just Jap bikes that have poor quality finish. My KTMs and BMWs have been shocking as well! Actually I'd say BMW and Suzukis are the worse ones I've had.

The finish on BMW is a joke. It's literally below MZ quality. It's worse than Suzuki by a long way.

Funny enough, one of my Jap bikes is Indian and the finish is shit. Another is French and the finish is fine.