I am trying to strip out my camperbus to refit it all in different areas and get more storage but of late its been to cold. I bought one of them little camping heaters that take the little gas tins
The Butane i have what i think is the same in picture was running out after 5 minutes making me think the wee heater was buggered. No, its the gas, It does not like the cold apparently. To test this i opened the tin storage area when the gas was running out and put my hand on the tin. The heat was enough to get it running again. Anyway Apparently when to cold it stops being a Gas and more liquid but Campingaz does the isobutane gas what is a mixed with Propane and Butane allowing it to burn in colder conditions or so i am lead to believe. I know i can get winter bus but not in these little tins as far as i can see. Have any of you used the Isobutane in freezing conditions before?
This has also got me thinking i want to use my camperbus more all year round and wondering of i should bun the big Calor bottle and go for Campingaz bottles as if i do run out in Euroland i could get it replaced a lot easier.
We have bottled gas for cooking and it sits out the back in the garden. Below freezing it has to be propane, butane just stops working - as you say, you need a touch of warmth to get butane running (I throw a bowl of water over it at a push) and apparently a lit light bulb gives off enough, assuming reasonably insulated I suppose, to do similar
The bottles actually cool in use as the gas is vaporised (ye olde adiabatic expansion). You'll see condensation on the bottles at the level of the liquid iirc. We tried running those big blower heaters in a huge old barn when doing a project. We had to chuck the bottles in dustbins of warm water and keep changing the water.
I guess wrapping them in insulation makes it worse rather than better because you'll be keeping them cold rather than warm.
Funny really, you need to heat the bottles to run a heater when it's very cold.
Doubt is not a pleasant condition.
But certainty is an absurd one.
Voltaire
This guys voice will send you to sleep but its quite interesting how good this primus winter gas in. Not a hope in hell my tine of Butane will work when this deep in the snow
DefTrap wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 12:48 am
We have bottled gas for cooking and it sits out the back in the garden. Below freezing it has to be propane, butane just stops working - as you say, you need a touch of warmth to get butane running (I throw a bowl of water over it at a push) and apparently a lit light bulb gives off enough, assuming reasonably insulated I suppose, to do similar
So i have hope that my Isobutane works then. I did wrap my tin in a bubble foil blanlket what did nothing. Like Count steer said, it just trapping in the cold.
A top tip for tightwads: You can sometimes get free for a suitable donation* gas canisters from hostels in Scotland. Outdoors types fly in with their gear but can't bring or take gas on the plane so they buy a tin and leave it when they go.
cheb wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 8:57 am
I also have bottled gas for the cooker hob. Propane too for those same reasons, I've not yet had a problem with it.
If i was to switch the cooker in my camperbus to Propane do you know if i need to swap the jets over?
I don't know. I've only ever seen jets for natural gas and different jets for LPG. LPG seems to include butane and propane.
Natural gas, methane, has one carbon atom, propane has three and butane four. The proportional molecule size difference between the propane and butane compared to methane must be significant.
I wonder why ethane, 2 carbon atoms, isn't used? Ethyne is, AKA acetylene.
Ill look at it closer later. Might just be worth the switch to Isobutane as the Campingaz is available all over Europe. Saves buying all the different regulators. and a bottle of my Calor was to run out when away.
I'll hazard Butane/Propane is more prevalent in oil/natural gas as it comes out of the ground than ethane. I also wonder if the C=C (carbon - carbon double bond) in ethane makes it a bit too reactive for a home gas burner?
"Of all the stories you told me, which ones were true and which ones weren't?"
"My dear Doctor, they're all true."
"Even the lies?"
"Especially the lies."
Ethane has a single bond, ethene has the double. Ethyne is triple bonded. the clue's in the name If you are really bored read up on chemical name suffixes.
I'd be going for the most available fuel when traveling purely for the convenience.
cheb wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 9:06 am
I don't know. I've only ever seen jets for natural gas and different jets for LPG. LPG seems to include butane and propane.
Natural gas, methane, has one carbon atom, propane has three and butane four. The proportional molecule size difference between the propane and butane compared to methane must be significant.
I wonder why ethane, 2 carbon atoms, isn't used? Ethyne is, AKA acetylene.
Probably too useful as a precursor to plastics like PE and for acetylene (which as oxyacetylene is the highest temperature burn of common fuel gases so it makes sense to 'uprate' it). It is present in natural gas (second biggest component) and was part of the domestic supply but I think it's too valuable and is removed now.
My flame chemistry is a bit rusty but I think burner jet size is down to the gas energy density /combustability/oxygen demand rather than molecule size. Get it wrong and the flame 'lifts off'. I suspect that with propane and butane, supply pressure change will cope with a single jet size but not really sure.
Doubt is not a pleasant condition.
But certainty is an absurd one.
Voltaire
Felix wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 8:59 am
So i have hope that my Isobutane works then. I did wrap my tin in a bubble foil blanlket what did nothing. Like Count steer said, it just trapping in the cold.
Yeah, insulation on its own does nothing, been there ....
cheb wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 9:30 am
Ethane has a single bond, ethene has the double. Ethyne is triple bonded. the clue's in the name If you are really bored read up on chemical name suffixes.
I'd be going for the most available fuel when traveling purely for the convenience.
D'oh my bad. Brain in neutral.
"Of all the stories you told me, which ones were true and which ones weren't?"
"My dear Doctor, they're all true."
"Even the lies?"
"Especially the lies."
Count Steer wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 8:10 am
The bottles actually cool in use as the gas is vaporised (ye olde adiabatic expansion). You'll see condensation on the bottles at the level of the liquid iirc. We tried running those big blower heaters in a huge old barn when doing a project. We had to chuck the bottles in dustbins of warm water and keep changing the water.
