revtothelimit - motorbike forum

Le_Fromage_Grande wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:38 pm

weeksy wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:21 pm
I've been, it was rubbish. Lol.

Seriously, it's actually IMO the worst circuit I've ridden. Apart from the bombhole there wasn't a decent corner on it.

Are you sure you mean the Bombhole and not Coram?
I don't like Donington but loads of people love it, but it's only because I can't get my head round the racing line for it, it's taken me ages to get my head round Snetterton's new (to me) layout, but now I have I really enjoy it.

Whatever this one is.

sweet by Steve Weeks, on Flickr

Le_Fromage_Grande wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:32 pm .....

I did a trackday on my R1 in 2000, it was great fun, and the only time I used it properly, and the only time I've had the rear end of a tarmac bike sliding around , I'd happily use a 98 R1 again on track, I think it would end in a big high side though.

I'd be very suprised if it did, unless you're coming out of corners with 10k rpm up and very hard/ham-fisted on the throttle, or on 1990s tyres- they've come on loads in the last 20+ years old boy!

weeksy wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:54 pm

Le_Fromage_Grande wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:38 pm

weeksy wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:21 pm
I've been, it was rubbish. Lol.

Seriously, it's actually IMO the worst circuit I've ridden. Apart from the bombhole there wasn't a decent corner on it.

Are you sure you mean the Bombhole and not Coram?
I don't like Donington but loads of people love it, but it's only because I can't get my head round the racing line for it, it's taken me ages to get my head round Snetterton's new (to me) layout, but now I have I really enjoy it.

Whatever this one is.

sweet by Steve Weeks, on Flickr

That's the Bombhole

Tricky wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:53 pm

Le_Fromage_Grande wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:32 pm .....

I did a trackday on my R1 in 2000, it was great fun, and the only time I used it properly, and the only time I've had the rear end of a tarmac bike sliding around , I'd happily use a 98 R1 again on track, I think it would end in a big high side though.

I'd be very suprised if it did, unless you're coming out of corners with 10k rpm up and very hard/ham-fisted on the throttle, or on 1990s tyres- they've come on loads in the last 20+ years old boy!

It was coming onto the back straight in 3rd, I think the back tyre was a Metzeler, but could have been a Michelin Hi Sport, it was a nice gentle controlled slide and really good fun to do, after it doing it a couple of times, I was deliberately provoking it into sliding, which is why I think if I did it again it'd end in a high side, there's only so many times I'm going to get away with being stupid.

Yorick wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:45 pm

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:42 pm A fast charger can add 40 miles range for every hour plugged in, so you'd be looking at roughly half an hour to get a session's worth of charge back.

So yeah...doable even today if you're organised about it, but a stretch.

Not far off being mainstream.

A mile on track is about 3 on the road.

I could get about 160 miles from GSXR 1000 at steady pace. Only about 65-70 on track.

That heavy beast will be worse.

Don't forget that EV's have braking regeneration, and so will restore a bit of power to the batteries on a closing throttle and braking, something an ICE can't do.

As my old boss used to say "you can't run a petrol engine backwards and make fuel". An EV can do precisely that though.

Its a bigger effect than you might think, especially on track. F1 have been doing it for about 10 years now with KERS. At first it was borderline on whether it was worth doing at all, but now the system is allowed to be more powerful it has a big impact.

BTW...the regen braking effect is quite powerful. If you come off throttle in a modern EV its like jumping on the brakes, such is the 'power' of the regen. You seldom need to use the real brakes at all. They're all wired up to turn the brake lights on even if you don't actually touch the brake pedal.

In F1 the regen braking is so powerful that if the system fails they overheat the real brakes within a couple of laps.

When I used to race Scalextric cars we'd make them brake by shorting the rails to each other, looping the motor, some motors had so much brake they'd stop the car dead from flat out, we'd add a resistor to reduce the brake effect.

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:22 pm Our motors have noise artificially massaged both in and out. Obviously can't say much, but they go into cars from an OEM renowned for their musical exhausts and we help tune the noise.

I drive a Lexus, and amongst the millions of 'stupid' settings is one that uses the stereo to make brmm brmm noises to supplement the real noise. That particular control is switched very firmly OFF.

Our motors don't do any artificial noise type stuff, they just have features to help tune the "natural" noise of the motor.

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:32 pm BTW...the regen braking effect is quite powerful. If you come off throttle in a modern EV its like jumping on the brakes, such is the 'power' of the regen. You seldom need to use the real brakes at all. They're all wired up to turn the brake lights on even if you don't actually touch the brake pedal.

In F1 the regen braking is so powerful that if the system fails they overheat the real brakes within a couple of laps.

Worth reading about the E-dumper which is an all electric quarry dumper that picks up a load at the top of a hill then takes it down the hill using regen braking then returns up the hill empty.
So its the only electric vehicle to actually charge up on balance during its usage.

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/elektro-du ... c-vehicle/

Whysub wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:10 pm Don't forget that EV's have braking regeneration, and so will restore a bit of power to the batteries on a closing throttle and braking, something an ICE can't do.

That advanced rider's sect of 'no brakers' will be forced to rethink their ideology.

Skub wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:02 pm
That advanced rider's sect of 'no brakers' will be forced to rethink their ideology.

Shouldn't be necessary. On my hybrid taking the foot off the throttle is enough to trigger regeneration. I imagine electric bikes will do the same.

I think the original convention was letting off the throttle regened a bit, twisting it the other way gave you more.

I don't think anyone is actually doing that on bikes any more? I thibk they just have selectable rider modes with more / less regen.

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:18 pm I think the original convention was letting off the throttle regened a bit, twisting it the other way gave you more.

I don't think anyone is actually doing that on bikes any more? I thibk they just have selectable rider modes with more / less regen.

The Zero's I rode all had ways of adjusting the regen so "engine" braking was either noticable on full regen, or felt it had none at all when switched to the low setting.

weeksy wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:08 pm very few using warmers, in fact most years it's only Mrs Weeksy who has warmers

Now there's a thought: with on-board power, you could have heated wheel rims to keep some heat in the tyre during the pit - grid - start transition

Perhaps a slightly more realistic proposition is electric damping.

There is no fundamental reason damping has to be hydraulics/gas. You can achieve the same effects with magnets and wires. In fact you can go even better, cause electric damping can actively generate forces rather than just reacting stuff. I know one supercar company - although I'm not at liberty to sat which - is actively developing it.

Previously electric damping never took off 'cause of the high power requirements and associated weight. But in an EV you're already carrying around high power electronics anyway...

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:53 am Perhaps a slightly more realistic proposition is electric damping.

There is no fundamental reason damping has to be hydraulics/gas. You can achieve the same effects with magnets and wires.

Audi, amongst others, have been offering magnetic damping as an option for sometime.

https://www.audi-technology-portal.de/e ... ic-ride_en

I'm surprised it hasn't made it onto bikes yet. (There was a recent patent from a Swiss company for mountain bike magnetic dampers)

https://www.bikeradar.com/features/magn ... e-know-it/

Luddite wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:33 am

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:53 am Perhaps a slightly more realistic proposition is electric damping.

There is no fundamental reason damping has to be hydraulics/gas. You can achieve the same effects with magnets and wires.

Audi, amongst others, have been offering magnetic damping as an option for sometime.

https://www.audi-technology-portal.de/e ... ic-ride_en

I'm surprised it hasn't made it onto bikes yet.

GSXR1000s have had an electronic steering damper for a while. It gets stiffer as you go faster

They're not 'truly' electric in the sense i mean.

The Audi system is still hydraulic, it still damps using oil. The magnetic aspect just changes the viscosity of the oil. Its like being able to change the oil type on the fly.

Not sure what the Gixxer does but probably something similar.

Most of the systems you read about are 'just' using electricity to change the oil viscosity or to move valves etc. They're magnetorheological..."rheology" refers to the flow of fluids.

I'm referring to systems which have no fluids at all, much more like an electric motor. AFAIK no one does that on the road yet. They have the potential to be much higher performance.

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:50 am I'm referring to systems which have no fluids at all, much more like an electric motor. AFAIK no one does that on the road yet. They have the potential to be much higher performance.

Like maglev trains.