Overtaking

[Mr. Dazzle]

Real pros go for the gaps between the lines anyway

Or is that just me?

[Nordboy]

Our general rule is that safe overtakes should be completed in 50% of the road before your next hazard, that includes a bend, zone of invisibility, other vehicles etc. Once you're out on the opposite carriageway then the stop in half distance rule applies (therefore the 50% area) as the oncoming vehicle takes up 50% of your braking distance.

Probably haven't explained it well, as I'm in a rush, and tbh, on a bike you can, because of size and acceleration, generally get the o/t done quicker but as a guide, it works well for being safe during o/t's. Once our students start pushing the o/t's into 75% + of the area before the next hazard then they're taking away their 'safety' area. Also, shows me that the student is correctly planning the o/t, rather than relying on the power/ speed of the machine. And our courses are generally running over the speed limits as well, as we have the training speed exemptions. this can cause issues itself though as the students can get fixated on speed.

[Horse]

Real pros go for the gaps between the lines anyway

Or is that just me?

Def avoid any cats eye studs. Try it in the car too

And 'one way' arrows in the centre of lanes are great practicing swerving

[iansoady]

Def avoid any cats eye studs. Try it in the car too

When my dad was teaching me to drive the car, he's shout "Square wheels" every time I ran over a cat's eye. Modern ones aren't so prominent however.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Driving in Denmark the other day is was always trying to go for the gaps between the white lines, the lines have those ridges on which make a buzzing noise if you drive over them.

[Horse]

Driving in Denmark the other day is was always trying to go for the gaps between the white lines, the lines have those ridges on which make a buzzing noise if you drive over them.

Buzzing Schmuzzing

You need MUSIC

[Wossname]

Just a thought, is it a possible idea to practise any of this on a safe environment like a dual carriageway way on a quiet morning? You can find a slow moving car, or even organise one, and find out just how long these overtakes take.

Very easy to do, and you can do it in the car without annoying anyone. Quiet d/c or mway, find a car doing, say, 60 mph. Sit behind it (2 sec following distance) for a few secs, then start your o/t, counting the secs (“one thousand, two thousand etc”) as soon as you start. Keep your speed to the limit, allow him his 2 secs as best as you can judge. How many secs to complete?
Then do the sum. X secs @ y mph = z metres. Imagine that on a single c/way, and how it could be affected by oncoming etc.

You’ll be surprised.

[Noggin]

Not read all the thread, but one thing I always remember is 'easy over the white line'. Whether accelerating or braking. Read somewhere once that the white line was probably a factor in a fatality a few years back. Slippy buggers sometimes.

100% a wet white line was the cause of me coming awful close to binning the second blackbird!!! Still not sure how it sorted itself out but when I arrived at work I was really pleased when someone started talking to me if only because she was checking I was ok - apparently I was white as a sheet! But for the rest of the journey after the scare I really wasn't sure if I had survived or was a ghost riding in - couldn't feel my heartbeat and barely breathing!! Shock is weird!!

(I blamed the possibility of wet leaves at the time, but in reality it was the wet white line!!)

[Horse]

These replies may seem blunt

Still not sure how it sorted itself out

You got back on to better surface, and the bike 'self-centred'. Possibly / probably helped by you not trying to do anything, so preventing the bike from doing so.

In reality it was the wet white line!!)

In reality it was what you were trying to do as you crossed the white line. eg Accelerating.

If so, that was from rushing the overtake - and that's potentially from trying for what was really a too-small gap. Or not planning your riding to avoid firm acceleration over poor surfaces.

NB blame 'spilt diesel'

[Noggin]

These replies may seem blunt

Still not sure how it sorted itself out

You got back on to better surface, and the bike 'self-centred'. Possibly / probably helped by you not trying to do anything, so preventing the bike from doing so.

It was damp and dark and I was on a Blackbird that I was still learning to ride. Didn't even realise just how slippy white lines would be in the damp, was more aware in the wet!

Luckily, for no reason I'd been taught, I did nothing!! Well, not until it had stopped dancing all over the place, then I braked hard enough to pull back in behind the van I was overtaking (there was a corner coming up that I didn't have time to sort out and I could see headlights coming!). I'm still convinced that the linked braking helped out a very novice rider in that situation!!

But I did learn from that that sometimes it is better to do nothing and let the bike sort itself out. I don't think many people ever learn that!

In reality it was the wet white line!!)

In reality it was what you were trying to do as you crossed the white line. eg Accelerating.

If so, that was from rushing the overtake - and that's potentially from trying for what was really a too-small gap. Or not planning your riding to avoid firm acceleration over poor surfaces.

NB blame 'spilt diesel'

LOL Picky picky!! LOL but yes, accelerating over a white line. Not sure I was rushing any more than usual, but a combination of damp white line, powerful bike and novice rider = oops!! Well, nearly oops!

Definitely not diesel - 100% rider error

[Wossname]

“Spilt diesel” is the 2 wheel equivalent of the “big black dog/ badger/deer” that you had to swerve to avoid in your single vehicle crash…

[Horse]

A trafpol I knew slid his job bike off diesel into a ditch

[The Spin Doctor]

I'm in two minds about IAM/RoSPA. I did 5/6 observed rides with me and feel that my riding improved but there were other concerns - there seemed to be some disparity between observers, commentary didn't match the scoring system and the group rides that I did (only two of them) left a lot to be desired.

I had (and passed) the IAM car test. I have a certificate somewhere. I actually learned a lot of useful stuff, although I also 'learned' some stuff I used on the test and then discarded. Observers were a mixed bunch, some excellent, some not. I tried to avoid the ones I thought were too anal

I started a bike course and all went well with the first observer (who reckoned I needed a bit of 'polish' but was near test ready. Then I had a different observer who metaphorically ripped me a new arsehole. Much of what he wanted me to do was alien to me, and contrary to what other Police and Police-trained riders had suggested. That group also held Sunday rideouts which were only for fully trained riders, they had a history of crashing!.

I decided not to bother with the IAM any more. Never tried ROSPA, although I am tempted to give the local group a go, A rider who I consider to be good is an instructor with them, and it might be worthwhile getting any bad habits checked out before they bite me.

Done any other useful courses? [innocent look]

[Cousin Jack]

Done any other useful courses? [innocent look]

A bloke called Kevin did a useful course. It worked for me!

Hi Spin, are you still in business?

[Horse]

Done any other useful courses? [innocent look]

A bloke called Kevin did a useful course. It worked for me!

Hi Spin, are you still in business?

Spin's entrepeneurism would put Del Boy to shame.

Training, books & ebooks, broadcasts, magazine articles, blog posts, personal appearances.

He'll be opening supermarkets next.

Or closing them

[The Spin Doctor]

Done any other useful courses? [innocent look]

A bloke called Kevin did a useful course. It worked for me!

Hi Spin, are you still in business?

Yep, although veering off into online coaching these days... feedback has been excellent from those open-minded enough to try it.

[Evotion]

Best thing I learned on an Advanced course was how to overtake properly. I had never properly thought about it before.
I was simply told to move to the right (on UK roads) a bit, see that it is clear and only when clear, and only then, start to accelerate and make the pass.

Previously, I would accelerate before looking. It makes a huge difference as you lose time and distance from the car doing that.

Case in point, literally one or two days later, I was stuck behind a car going up a hill. It looked clear.
I popped to the right about 2 yards to take that proper look and a car popped on that road from a hidden junction.
I moved safely back to my left and stayed behind the slow car.
Before the course I would likely accelerated up to and slightly around the car and likely been too late to alter my trajectory safely. I am convinced that course saved me a head on collision.

That might all sound obvious to you lot but I had to be shown this technique. I do it with my sports car now too.

[Scootabout]

Yes, that's probably the most important thing I've learnt about overtaking, together with, 'If you don't know, don't go'. Or as someone once put it on here, 'If there is any doubt, there is no doubt'.

[Horse]

I was simply told to move to the right (on UK roads) a bit, see that it is clear and only when clear, and only then, start to accelerate and make the pass.

Previously, I would accelerate before looking. It makes a huge difference as you lose time and distance from the car doing that.

... I am convinced that course saved me a head on collision.

That might all sound obvious to you lot but I had to be shown this technique.

"Before you take off, be sure you have somewhere to land" is a good thing to consider.

And more on overtaking:

viewtopic.php?t=10605

[Mr. Dazzle]

I would seem massively obvious to me that you need to be sure it's clear before you start accelerating? Or have I missed something (other than oncoming cars )?