revtothelimit - motorbike forum

Potter wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:22 pm Surely the movement is an ETA?

Well I'd guess it's an ETA movement in that Swatch are part of ETA are they not? but it's a quartz for sure.

wheelnut wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:25 pm

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:08 pm I bet the margins on real moon watches a fucking huge too

I bet the overall margin is a lot less that 25 bits of chinese made* tat.

*probably.

I don't know. Perhaps it's marketing genius, but I can't help thinking there's a very good reason the brands have always been kept separate.

I dunno - if my thinking is correct, they make a few grand of profit on every Speedmaster. They'd have to sell 10 Moonswatches to even turn over 2k?

Potter wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:22 pm I don't know anything about the MoonSwatch but I really like the idea of them, anything that gets people into horology at a decent price point has to be a good thing.

Objection your Honour!

Horology is 'the study and measurement of time' and 'the art of making clocks and watches'.

As the buyer (nodded once too often at an auction) and mender of a range of 'basket case' old clocks I don't think buying a few watches counts.

Potter wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:47 pm

Count Steer wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:33 pm

Potter wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:22 pm I don't know anything about the MoonSwatch but I really like the idea of them, anything that gets people into horology at a decent price point has to be a good thing.

Objection your Honour!

Horology is 'the study and measurement of time' and 'the art of making clocks and watches'.

As the buyer (nodded once too often at an auction) and mender of a range of 'basket case' old clocks I don't think buying a few watches counts.

I do have some tools, a timegrapher, and a passing interest on how stuff works, but I'm not a proper horologist.
I'm not a proper biker either apparently.

'Bikers' ride bikes so you're as 'proper' as anyone else.

I do have one clock that I dare not faff with and, judging by what the 'proper' local horologist charges to service and repair it, I sometimes think I made the wrong career choice.

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:29 pm
I dunno - if my thinking is correct, they make a few grand of profit on every Speedmaster. They'd have to sell 10 Moonswatches to even turn over 2k?

I would imagine they’ll sell 200 moonswatches for every moon watch.

I'd only like a MoonSwatch as have fond memories of owning a Swatch Turquoise Bay when I was a yoof many years ago

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133917702167 ... bcQAvD_BwE

Potter wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 4:18 am
Swatches are good products and they offer something exciting to people ….

Yet, you’ll find very few watch collectors have any in their collection (although I have a few 90’s Ironys).

Potter wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 4:18 am I'm sitting here in a Patek, but if someone came in with a MoonSwatch I'd be interested in it and I'd compliment them on a funky and exciting choice of watch. It's like bikes, I could be sat on a Ducati V4S but if you turn up on a 1991 CBR600 then I'd want to have a look at it and I'd compliment you on a great choice of bike.

That’s a poor analogy. How would you react if you were sat on your V4S and someone rocks up on a plastic bike, with a rotax single cylinder engine with a label of Ducati by Audi?

A CBR600 is a good, honest bike. I’m not so sure that a moonswatch is anything but a cynical marketing stunt selling cheap tat while capitalising on the omega brand.

Call that ‘frothing’if you want.

wheelnut wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:00 pm capitalising on the omega brand.

Ah....so you're familiar with the fancy watch business model then?

I agree you could call it cynical. I just think the entire industry probably deserves that tag.

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:08 pm

wheelnut wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:00 pm capitalising on the omega brand.

Ah....so you're familiar with the fancy watch business model then?

I agree you could call it cynical. I just think the entire industry probably deserves that tag.

I think it is a brilliant idea.

£200 watches that cost probably £50 to make in quantity, loads of hype to generate publicity, everyone thinking and talking about Omega rather than Rolex.

My mate on Friendface reckons they only weigh 30g and are a bit cheap and nasty.

I think I'd still pick on up for £200.

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:08 pm

Ah....so you're familiar with the fancy watch business model then?

I agree you could call it cynical. I just think the entire industry probably deserves that tag.

Oh, without a doubt. Like any company that takes the time and trouble to create a brand ‘presence’. Have you seen what Apple stuff costs?

Perhaps Swatch, despite being a presence in the 80s have devolved to becoming a holding company for other brands. It seems they aren’t content with that anymore and have a found a speedy (sic) way of capitalising on one of its stablemates in order to drive up sales of its own. The person who came up with it will no doubt be branded a marketing genius and be off to bigger and better things.

I can’t deny there’s a definite cleverness to what’s been done, but I can’t help it reminding me of Gerald Ratner talking about selling shit.

KungFooBob wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:17 pm My mate on Friendface reckons they only weigh 30g and are a bit cheap and nasty.

I think I'd still pick on up for £200.

Like any swatch I’ve tried on in the last 20 years. And there’s a lot better options out there for £200.

Picked up this little beauty for £95 in a timex sale a couple of days ago.

https://www.timex.co.uk/timex-marlin-au ... 600QY.html

ok, what about Triwa?

I like the look of them, even if they don't look like a Speedmaster,

wheelnut wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:32 pm

KungFooBob wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:17 pm My mate on Friendface reckons they only weigh 30g and are a bit cheap and nasty.

I think I'd still pick on up for £200.

Like any swatch I’ve tried on in the last 20 years. And there’s a lot better options out there for £200.

Picked up this little beauty for £95 in a timex sale a couple of days ago.

https://www.timex.co.uk/timex-marlin-au ... 600QY.html

For your grandchildren?

KungFooBob wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:36 pm ok, what about Triwa?

I like the look of them, even if they don't look like a Speedmaster,

Swedish iirc, Mioyta quartz movement. Ok, but sort of fall between a micro brand and a fashion watch brand. If you like it though then go for it.

weeksy wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:43 pm For your grandchildren?

Eventually, probably.

In the meantime, there’s a few more in the marlin collection to get

If anyone is interested there is an interesting analysis by John Gapper* of why Swatch Group (which includes Omega, Longings and Tissot) have come up with the MoonSwatch.

Basically Swatch (which contributes just 3.5% to group revenue) is "an ageing brand that has lost traction among young people", the threat to Swiss watches that sell for $500 or less is the smartwatch and that 'real' Omega watches were becoming too obtainable cf Rolex so they need to generate revenue while putting a crimp on supply of the luxury brand as unobtainability is the ultimate status symbol and what sustains the prices.

*Financial Times 2/3 April 2022

Potter wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 1:19 pm The theories are vast and varied, the forums are currently buzzing with all kinds of experts who know exactly what's going on, but they're all saying different things.

I'm currently reading about two new secret Rolex factories that are apparently (or not apparently) being built.

In my experience anyone and everyone that doesn't make the decisions in any business, has a theory about why the decisions are being made, and it's usually because of some complex masterplan - whilst the reality is that those making the decisions just do whatever seems like a good idea at the time and put a lot less thought into it

One of the author's sources is Nicholas Hayek (Swatch co-founder) so he may have a better idea than most.

Ultimately it's about the choice of restricting supply by reducing production or to "attract a new generation of luxury customers to its boomer heritage" and make and sell more. Wouldn't be the first company to chase more sales and undermine brand value in the process. Be interesting to see if the Omega and Rolex marketing/sales models diverge one chasing sales, one restricting them, although Rolex says it is working as hard as it can to handmake more.

Anyway, the conclusion is that this exercise isn't so much about Swatch, it's about creating more aspiration/demand for Omegas.

I can never quite get Rolex.

They don't make any profit right? Isn't that restriction enshrined in some rule somewhere?

So WTF are they playing at with the fancy watches?

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 2:01 pm I can never quite get Rolex.

They don't make any profit right? Isn't that restriction enshrined in some rule somewhere?

So WTF are they playing at with the fancy watches?

They're a registered charity and don't pay tax, doesn't mean they don't pay themselves.