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Re: Classic Triumph Bonneville
Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:01 am
by JackyJoll
David wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 8:32 amWhat handbook?
The one for a 1971 Vauxhall Viva Estate.
I think it’ll often need tickling much more than “momentarily.”
https://www.bsaunitsingles.com/owners_r ... anuals.htm
Re: Classic Triumph Bonneville
Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:41 am
by Horse
Count Steer wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:36 pm
I had a 650 Panther (long stroke, single) when I was an 8.5st weakling yoof.
The kick-start procedure was a bit complicated (handlebar levers and a little lever on the side of the engine etc).
If I got it wrong - particularly if I forgot the little lever by the right foot) it would flip me in the air.
I only ever start it on the centre stand.
Re: Classic Triumph Bonneville
Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 2:17 pm
by Count Steer
Horse wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:41 am
Count Steer wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:36 pm
I had a 650 Panther (long stroke, single) when I was an 8.5st weakling yoof.
The kick-start procedure was a bit complicated (handlebar levers and a little lever on the side of the engine etc).
If I got it wrong - particularly if I forgot the little lever by the right foot) it would flip me in the air.
I only ever start it on the centre stand.
LOL!
The beast....(mine wasn't actually this one or this shiny! The little starting lever thingy is visible just in front of where the riders right foot would be. Never did know what it did...valve lifter maybe?)
Re: Classic Triumph Bonneville
Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 2:29 pm
by JackyJoll
They call it a half-compression device.
It must alter the exhaust valve timing in such a way as to make the engine easier (or at least possible!) to kick over.
Re: Classic Triumph Bonneville
Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 2:49 pm
by Count Steer
JackyJoll wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 2:29 pm
They call it a half-compression device.
It must alter the exhaust valve timing in such a way as to make the engine easier (or at least possible!) to kick over.
It does seem to be located at the bottom of the push rod tube so that would make sense.
The other noteworthy thing about them is the lack of a frame down-tube. The engine is actually a structural part as the rocker cover bolts onto the top tube etc.
IIRC there was an advance/retard and choke on the handlebars. If you did everything right it would start first kick every time.
Re: Classic Triumph Bonneville
Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:21 am
by Mr. Dazzle
Nidge wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:44 pm
That primary chain adjuster tool is basically a thread less bolt with a screwdriver flat machined on the end.
I believe that may be literally the case here....you can see where the threads used to be
Re: Classic Triumph Bonneville
Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 1:04 pm
by Mr. Dazzle
Just nipped out on my lunch break to adjust jt.
The tool goes in the hole on the bottom right, turning it pushes the right hand end of the curved tensioner in/out. I don't know if a T140 is different, but on this bike there's no access to get a screwdriver in cause of the blue frame. There's barely enough space to get the tool in.
From the feel of it I'd say the adjuster is on its last legs. There probably isn't much adjustment left in this chain either. I CBA to replace all that ATM.
Re: Classic Triumph Bonneville
Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 1:15 pm
by Nidge
It’s the same on a T140- I think drone hazy memory I managed to use a vey long thin screwdriver before I bought the proper tool. The adjusters never feel particularly “positive”
Re: Classic Triumph Bonneville
Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:09 pm
by Mr. Dazzle
I readjusted the clutch today after watching a few YouTube videos....seems pretty straight now.
Sadly I also discovered I've got the wrong primary casing gasket. I must have bought one for a
different 1969 Bonneville
I put the casing back on anyway and tried to start her up. It'll be OK for a couple of mins with no gasket, there's only a little bit of oil in there.
Sadly I also failed to start
Kicker is much more positive now, every stroke generates chuffs, doofs or hisses from the pistons. I got pops and coughs pretty consistently, a kickback a few times (I assume that's what it was.....doesn't start and then suddenly lever fires back at you hard). Even got a few massive puffs of fuel vapour ejected backwards out the carbs.
No running though! I'm pretty sure its my technique.
Re: Classic Triumph Bonneville
Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:20 pm
by Nidge
Not being funny but have you tried turning the gasket round 180°? IIRC the gasket looks like the fatter bit goes at the bottom by the primary adjuster, but actually it sits in the top face of housing
Re: Classic Triumph Bonneville
Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:36 pm
by Mr. Dazzle
Tried it every which way I think.
Gotta be honest though, I had my second jab at the weekend and its hit me alot more than the first
Re: Classic Triumph Bonneville
Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:02 pm
by Mr. Dazzle
Just looking through some things again I think I might have the idle set too low...I've got the idle mixture right (1.5 turns out from fully in) but I don't think I've got the slide stop screw in far enough.
Might explain why it coughs but doesn't catch.
Re: Classic Triumph Bonneville
Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:25 pm
by JackyJoll
Mr. Dazzle wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:09 pm
I readjusted the clutch today after watching a few YouTube videos....seems pretty straight now.
Sadly I also discovered I've got the wrong primary casing gasket. I must have bought one for a
different 1969 Bonneville
I put the casing back on anyway and tried to start her up. It'll be OK for a couple of mins with no gasket, there's only a little bit of oil in there.
Sadly I also failed to start
Kicker is much more positive now, every stroke generates chuffs, doofs or hisses from the pistons. I got pops and coughs pretty consistently, a kickback a few times (I assume that's what it was.....doesn't start and then suddenly lever fires back at you hard). Even got a few massive puffs of fuel vapour ejected backwards out the carbs.
No running though! I'm pretty sure its my technique.
That sounds like it needs more flooding on the tickler.
Re: Classic Triumph Bonneville
Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:26 pm
by JackyJoll
You don’t start it from cold on a closed throttle.
Re: Classic Triumph Bonneville
Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:29 pm
by KungFooBob
Have you ever considered building your own starting rollers?
Re: Classic Triumph Bonneville
Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:26 am
by Mr. Dazzle
I've flooded the hell out of it, so much so I wonder if I've gone too far. From dry it takes about 2s for the fuel to start pissing out the tickler so it seems to have a nice healthy flow
Julian is right that it seems to work better if you kick and don't jump. However I'm not that heavy and I do have to leap on it a bit
Definitely gets closer if you make the conscious effort to go all the way through the bottom half of the stroke on the lever though.
The low clip-ons and rear sets mean it is quite hard to hold the throttle steady while kicking. At the moment I have to do it on the centrestand, so I'm leaning forward quite a lot if I stand on the pegs and hang onto the bars.
Re: Classic Triumph Bonneville
Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:34 am
by weeksy
needs a comedy video
Re: Classic Triumph Bonneville
Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:51 am
by Mr. Dazzle
I nearly fell off it yesterday, which is quite an achievement for a bike sat stationary on the centre stand.
KungFooBob wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:29 pm
Have you ever considered building your own starting rollers?
Should be finished some time in 2024
Re: Classic Triumph Bonneville
Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 8:06 am
by Count Steer
Mr. Dazzle wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:26 am
I've flooded the hell out of it, so much so I wonder if I've gone too far. From dry it takes about 2s for the fuel to start pissing out the tickler so it seems to have a nice healthy flow
Julian is right that it seems to work better if you kick and don't jump. However I'm not that heavy and I do have to leap on it a bit
Definitely gets closer if you make the conscious effort to go all the way through the bottom half of the stroke on the lever though.
The low clip-ons and rear sets mean it is quite hard to hold the throttle steady while kicking. At the moment I have to do it on the centrestand, so I'm leaning forward quite a lot if I stand on the pegs and hang onto the bars.
Err. Others may have other views but I didn't straddle a difficult to start bike to kick it over even on the centre stand (and I wouldn't usually take a bike off the centre stand while sat on it).
Centre stand, stand at the side, kick. Brmm, brmm. Take bike off stand, get on.
I might have started the A7 while sat on it and not on the stand occasionally - if it was still warm.
Re: Classic Triumph Bonneville
Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 8:11 am
by Mr. Dazzle
I've tried it both ways, like I said my technique needs work
The only way I can get any momentum behind the kick is to use my body weight too. Even when it was on 9:1s the kicker would just about hold my weight. So with these 11:1s it's going nowhere unless I jump on it to some extent.
I'm reasonably sure the kicker gear is a bit buggered too. The first tooth on the quadrant is not fully formed (by design) to help it engage, apparently that aspect of it isn't great and the lever will jam. Quite often you can feel that a lot of the resistance is "something wrong" rather than just being hard to turn over. It gets past the first part of the stroke and then works much eaiser. In that situation I find it best to pull the clutch and have another go.
