revtothelimit - motorbike forum

Cousin Jack wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 4:07 pm Yes, I know, but 'idiot' is a convenient shorthand.

But it takes two to tangle...

So what does that make the rider who fails to avoid a collision?

The Spin Doctor wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 3:53 pm That's a total of two blind spot checks, and if you combine a mirror check with a shoulder check, it covers both what's behind and what's in the blind spot in barely more time than it takes to turn your head to look in the blind spot.

My shoulder checks tend to come as I’m entering the rab (the first turn onto a rab is generally a left turn), especially if I’m entering via a right hand lane of a two lane entry.

Second, as you say tends to be when just before I move the bike to leave the rab.

The Spin Doctor wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 3:44 pm

Dodgy69 wrote:I'd like to think entering cars can see bikes on islands ok. They're all looking in the same place and everything is moving pretty slow.

There are plenty of reasons that drivers LOOK BUT FAIL TO SEE motorcycles.

Roundabouts (bike on, car entering) are often ideal to create the 'constant bearing, constant heading' scenario.



And often both the bike and car are on curved paths.

That should be taught to every driver/rider. It would save quite a few collisions and a huge number of near misses at the end of entry slip roads.

The Spin Doctor wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 4:14 pm

Cousin Jack wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 4:07 pm Yes, I know, but 'idiot' is a convenient shorthand.

But it takes two to tangle...

So what does that make the rider who fails to avoid a collision?

If we had two Born Again riders, we used to include it the the figure of 8 (which was quite large, around flower/tree beds).

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 12:03 pm I see someone exiting a roundabout while indicating right pretty much every day.

Not as good as the Italian lorry I saw the other day though, they indicated left all the way up to the roundabout, indicated right while they were actually on it, then went straight over They did it for about 5 roundabouts in a row too.

It's 'partially' to do with thinking about the roundabout itself as a separate road - ie not part of the entry road, or the exit road, but a unique road in and of itself.

Think about it - if you were coming up to a T-junction, and turning left, you'd indicate left. (that's the entry to the road/roundabout taken care of).

The exit is a bit trickier to fathom - but imagine you're on a 'permanent-sliproad' environment, with exits every so often - one way of telling other road users that you're 'staying on this bit of road until my exit comes up' is to indicate right (I am turning right here... NOT turning left off the roundabout).

Obviously he was treating the 'exit' from the roundabout as 'straight on' - hence not indicating left.....



(bit of a mind fuck when you're used to thinking of roundabouts as a 'junction', ie a 'point-direction-change', rather than a string of different road types all bundled together. (which is how I think most Europeans seem to think of roundabouts).

Cousin Jack wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 2:09 pm That should be taught to every driver/rider. It would save quite a few collisions and a huge number of near misses at the end of entry slip roads.

Oops.

Meant to reply to this post.


If we had two Born Again riders, we used to include it the the figure of 8 (which was quite large, around flower/tree beds)

It's the secret ingredient of motorcycle display team high-speed crossovers. Although our trainees didn't quite do that

The 8 also included a blind T junction

Rockburner wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 3:22 pm (bit of a mind fuck when you're used to thinking of roundabouts as a 'junction', ie a 'point-direction-change', rather than a string of different road types all bundled together.

I learned to drive around Basingstoke which at the time had only 35 or so roundabouts.

None looked like the one in the Highway Code. One of them, though, was about 1 1/4 miles around. Best treated as a one way system.

As an aside: Swindon's 'magic roundabout' is 50 years old.

Cousin Jack wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 2:09 pm That should be taught to every driver/rider. It would save quite a few collisions and a huge number of near misses at the end of entry slip roads.

Which is why I cover it in Science Of Being Seen... which was being delivered by Biker Down teams across the country until it got dropped in 2020.

Booked your seat for the next online presentation yet?

Rockburner wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 3:22 pm It's 'partially' to do with thinking about the roundabout itself as a separate road - ie not part of the entry road, or the exit road, but a unique road in and of itself.

Think about it - if you were coming up to a T-junction, and turning left, you'd indicate left. (that's the entry to the road/roundabout taken care of).

The exit is a bit trickier to fathom - but imagine you're on a 'permanent-sliproad' environment, with exits every so often - one way of telling other road users that you're 'staying on this bit of road until my exit comes up' is to indicate right (I am turning right here... NOT turning left off the roundabout).

Obviously he was treating the 'exit' from the roundabout as 'straight on' - hence not indicating left.....



(bit of a mind fuck when you're used to thinking of roundabouts as a 'junction', ie a 'point-direction-change', rather than a string of different road types all bundled together. (which is how I think most Europeans seem to think of roundabouts).

Clever... I like that thinking.

Horse wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 3:32 pm
I learned to drive around Basingstoke which at the time had only 35 or so roundabouts.

None looked like the one in the Highway Code. One of them, though, was about 1 1/4 miles around. Best treated as a one way system.

As an aside: Swindon's 'magic roundabout' is 50 years old.

Hard to find any that look like the HC these days.

There were three 'square' roundabouts in a row on the Oxford ring road where I taught a couple of friends' kids to pass the test... each had a different set up of lanes on the approach.

The Spin Doctor wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 5:54 pm

Hard to find any that look like the HC these days.

There were three 'square' roundabouts in a row on the Oxford ring road where I taught a couple of friends' kids to pass the test... each had a different set up of lanes on the approach.

We have several 'weird' ones in Cornwall too, where the 'correct' lane is unclear. Most of the lane markings have disappeared, most locals remember them, emmets have no idea.

There are lots of clear lane markings at RABs here in Redditch. Unfortunately you can't see them till you've arrived at the RAB itself so if you're new to the area it's easy to get in the wrong lane as they're sometimes not very intuitive. Advance warnings would be very helpful.

iansoady wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:09 am There are lots of clear lane markings at RABs here in Redditch. Unfortunately you can't see them till you've arrived at the RAB itself so if you're new to the area it's easy to get in the wrong lane as they're sometimes not very intuitive. Advance warnings would be very helpful.

Been saying that roadside lane signs are essential on today's busy roads for years...

A change to a 'turn left from the left-hand lane, go straight on or right from the right hand lane' would also make a LOT of sense on most roundabouts.

That's the way our local roundabout is set up. We're also about a mile from the only true cloverleaf in England although there is one in Scotland. These can be challenging for those not used to them (including me when we first moved here!)

The Spin Doctor wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:45 am Been saying that roadside lane signs are essential on today's busy roads for years...

A change to a 'turn left from the left-hand lane, go straight on or right from the right hand lane' would also make a LOT of sense on most roundabouts.

That would upset the locals around here who seem to delight in driving from A to B with minimum steering lock. They do like to straight line roundabouts from the left lane, and wo beside anyone who gets alongside them. They don't read the Highway Code (or signs/lane markings), so they wouldn't notice any change

Cousin Jack wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:26 pm That would upset the locals around here who seem to delight in driving from A to B with minimum steering lock. They do like to straight line roundabouts from the left lane, and wo beside anyone who gets alongside them. They don't read the Highway Code (or signs/lane markings), so they wouldn't notice any change

Well, I have done talks for a couple of IAM groups down there

The Spin Doctor wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:20 pm Well, I have done talks for a couple of IAM groups down there

The ones I am talking about don't join the IAM either! We are not talking about fast drivers who straight line roundabouts for fun! These are just plain dozy.

Cousin Jack wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:26 pm! We are not talking about fast drivers who straight line roundabouts for fun! These are just plain dozy.

Taking less time to do something? When was that ever part of the Cornish lifestyle? [Mañana, but without the sense of urgency]

Pretty much every two lane roundabout in MK has three drain covers you hit when you straight line a roundabout - left wheel on entry, right wheel on apex, left wheel again on exit.

Not kerbed a wheel yet!