cut up at a roundabout

[Tigs]

I arrived at this roundabout today - I did my mirrors - indicated - life checked pulled out to the right position looked around the roundabout - shoulder checked - pulled out - was on the roundabout - I'm not 100% sure how I was indicated when I got to the second exit - I was planning to cancel my indicator and change it to a left indicator - I think I was still indicating right - but I may have just stopped indicating - ready to indicate left

But the blue car (shown by the box) was slowly pulling forward.. I in the moment - decided to continue my path - accelerating to get past the car - but I'm not sure what I should have done - I think had I tried to stop I might have been in more danger - should I have kept going round the round about? There was traffic behind me - I think it may not have reacted well to me stopping..

[The Spin Doctor]

By coincidence, from my 60 Second Safety series... 'right turns on roundabouts'...



When turning right, indicate right, then keep the indicator on all the way round the island until the moment it's too late to turn off at the previous exit, then swap signals. So that's about 1:26 into the video... if there was a car waiting at the junction nearside, the driver should be able to spot the signal changing to a left "I'm coming off at the next exit" signal

To be fair, it doesn't sound like a genuinely 'cut up' moment although I know that when we see a car start to edge forward, there's always that doubt about whether the driver's about to make a lunge.

There are two things you can do, apart from abort the turn and do a lap:

:: sound the horn - not a long blast, but just a short toot, it's generally enough to stop a driver in their tracks whilst they try to figure out where the sound came from, which is enough to get clear before they decide they still can't see anything and pull out
:: use an arm signal - I often reinforce a left indicator when I'm in a bit of doubt over whether the driver can see the indicator - something to be aware of at this time of year with very low sun that if the angle of the light is wrong, indicators are almost invisible, but an arm signal will tend to show up

And if the car DOES keep coming, then yes, a lap of the island will usually get you out of trouble. The problem with stopping is that that the car following you round might not.

[Dodgy69]

Keep indicating right until you've pasted the exit before yours, then indicate left for yours. The amount of driver's who indicate left before the one before they want really pisses me off, iykwim.

[Noggin]

I can't offer advice as I tend to deal with things as they happen and not 'process' a lot (I know, not good!)

But - I was often 'pulled out on' or had cars cross lanes on me on roundabouts (mostly in Bristol!). Mostly, IIRC, when I was bimbling and maybe not as focused as usual. It is definitely somewhere that you need to be 100% aware and also ready to make changes (but not stop if there is someone on your tail!!).

People often don't see bikes till late, and by that time they can't see the indicator

Also - just because we (as the riders) know that the direction we are going in is obvious due to road positioning/wheel direction, many other road users don't know/appreciate/understand this. Maybe?


Good on you for accelerating past and avoiding impact.

I would say, don't over think too much at this stage. Good on you for asking advice here as there are some seriously experienced guys on here that can offer proper advice. But don't get hung up on things too much as it could mess with your head in similar situations. Definitely consider options and if you did the right thing (in my limited experience, I'd say you did). But then continue learning (whilst remembering the good option!).

[The Spin Doctor]

Keep indicating right until you've pasted the exit before yours, then indicate left for yours. The amount of driver's who indicate left before the one before they want really pisses me off, iykwim.

Leave it too late, and drivers think you're heading round to the NEXT one.

That's why I said indicate left as soon as it's physically impossible to take the exit before the one you want.

[Mr. Dazzle]

I live in Milton Keynes, so I make lots of effort with correct roundabout signalling.

I'm the only one who does

[Asian Boss]

The most important thing to do at a roundabout is gan it reet over.

[Cousin Jack]

I always expect an idiot to pull out or cut me off at a roundabout. I am frequently rewarded by someone who does, but expecting it has kept me out of trouble so far.

[Tigs]

Thank you -roundabouts are tricky (I remember being afraid of them when I started in a car...) on a bike you are less seen so need to be more aware.
The video helped - and in my head I was changing my indicator - just when there was only one left I could take - but I suspect I was not visible enough - a beep would have helped - but no real harm done just a bit of a wake up call.

[iansoady]

I agree with the horn advice from Kevin. However, a hand / arm signal at that point would mean giving a right turn signal - taking the hand off the bars so losing throttle control (and in fact slowing down and unbalancing the bike as well as losing access to the front brake).

Unless of course an anglo-saxon signal was meant.

[Dodgy69]

I'd like to think entering cars can see bikes on islands ok. They're all looking in the same place and everything is moving pretty slow. I always check my left on exit just incase something is on my inside.

Islands/roundabouts can be different though. Busy multi lane's are a bloody nightmare and often you can't keep the correct lane discipline, I just go for it.

On entering, how many car's do you see indicating left, then go straight passed you. Many times I've had to hit the brakes. Don't always believe an indicator is indication they are turning.

Good luck.

[iansoady]

I've noticed in the last few years people joining big multi lane RABs when I'm in the RH lane intending to take an exit further round. They then sit beside and behind me so I can't see them easily and make exiting tricky.

[Mr. Dazzle]

I see someone exiting a roundabout while indicating right pretty much every day.

Not as good as the Italian lorry I saw the other day though, they indicated left all the way up to the roundabout, indicated right while they were actually on it, then went straight over They did it for about 5 roundabouts in a row too.

[wheelnut]

Roundabouts can be tricky, in my own experience part of the key is being aware what you can and can’t control.

The problems are;
Traffic converging from 3 or more directions.
Poor road surface with potential diesel/dust build up.
If you do need to brake then it’s likely you’ll be doing so while leant over. Not a good combo in the wet.

The traffic to your right isn’t generally an issue, as you can can control the decision to go/not go.

That leaves the traffic to your left entering the RAB and the traffic already on the RAB.

For traffic on the RAB avoid putting yourself in a position where they can hurt you. That generally means avoiding being parallel to them, especially when they’re on the inside.

For traffic approaching, there are all sorts of cues you can take from the vehicle’s approach - trust your instincts and be ready to stop, especially in the wet.

I often find if I’m behaving myself with lane discipline, then the approaching car is more likely to try and beat me (or not see me-perhaps as he has to turn his head further),

Also be aware that modern A pillars are huge and if your speed and the approaching drivers speed fall right then he may be totally oblivious to you.

If the RAB is dry and empty then have some fun, otherwise treat it with caution and be ready to stop.

[Noggin]

I see someone exiting a roundabout while indicating right pretty much every day.

Not as good as the Italian lorry I saw the other day though, they indicated left all the way up to the roundabout, indicated right while they were actually on it, then went straight over They did it for about 5 roundabouts in a row too.

TBF, that's how the french (and italians!) indicate on roundabouts here - maybe he was just signalling as if he was at home!! LOL

[Wossname]

2 other things spring to mind. 1 - your description up there ^^ includes a lot of mirrors, shoulder checks, life savers and so on. I'm not saying don't, obviously - you need to know what's around you but you don't need to know what he's doing "now"...and "now".. and "now"... But bear in mind that most of the things that will impact(!) on you will be ahead, so that's where the bulk of your attention needs to be. And 2 - as you found on this occasion, the best and safest option may often be to accelerate out of trouble, rather than the default reaction of braking. The car you were worried about may just have been creeping on, intending to merge behind you, but your increased speed gave you a bit better gap. Thumbs up from me.

[The Spin Doctor]

I always expect an idiot to pull out or cut me off at a roundabout. I am frequently rewarded by someone who does, but expecting it has kept me out of trouble so far.

An 'idiot'... or a typical error-prone human?

I'd like to think entering cars can see bikes on islands ok. They're all looking in the same place and everything is moving pretty slow. I always check my left on exit just incase something is on my inside.

There are plenty of reasons that drivers LOOK BUT FAIL TO SEE motorcycles. Saccadic masking, peripheral blindness, motion camouflage to name a few. Around one in three bike collisions happen when the driver looked, but failed to perceive the rider.

And if the bike just happens to line up with the offside A pillar as it comes into sight, the driver simply won't see us. That's vehicle design, not idiot driving. Around one in five bike collisions happen when the driver COULDN'T see the bike for one reason or another.

And then there are the riders getting a bit of cornering action in as they ride through a junction. Another one in five crashes happen when the driver looks, sees the bike, but misjudges speed and distance.

[The Spin Doctor]

I agree with the horn advice from Kevin. However, a hand / arm signal at that point would mean giving a right turn signal - taking the hand off the bars so losing throttle control (and in fact slowing down and unbalancing the bike as well as losing access to the front brake).

Unless of course an anglo-saxon signal was meant.

I was actually meaning a left turn signal to show that we're exiting at the next exit.

And there's a way to give a right turn arm signal without slowing too much - simply pull the clutch in and coast. I gave that advice to Bike Breaker a couple of decades ago on VD when she was puzzling over signals on her Velocette LE.

The bike effectively steers itself with just a little input onto the bars... if there's a wobble if you take a hand off the bars, there's something a bit wrong

[The Spin Doctor]

2 other things spring to mind. 1 - your description up there ^^ includes a lot of mirrors, shoulder checks, life savers and so on. I'm not saying don't, obviously - you need to know what's around you but you don't need to know what he's doing "now"...and "now".. and "now"... But bear in mind that most of the things that will impact(!) on you will be ahead, so that's where the bulk of your attention needs to be. And 2 - as you found on this occasion, the best and safest option may often be to accelerate out of trouble, rather than the default reaction of braking. The car you were worried about may just have been creeping on, intending to merge behind you, but your increased speed gave you a bit better gap. Thumbs up from me.

I agree that most of our attention needs to be on what's in front of us (though keeping a decent distance helps enormously here) and for merging vehicles but we've still got to discover what's going on around us - that's situational awareness and I tried to cover this in the video.

I made one blind spot check before moving right into the right lane and I emphasised that was particularly important here because of the odd approach layout that could end up with someone thinking the right turn refuge was actually the right-hand approach lane.

Then I emphasised the need for a check to the left just before exiting the roundabout, because you're potentially cutting across the path of someone who's come around the outside of you and is either aiming for the same bit of road, or worse, carrying on round to another exit.

That's a total of two blind spot checks, and if you combine a mirror check with a shoulder check, it covers both what's behind and what's in the blind spot in barely more time than it takes to turn your head to look in the blind spot.

[Cousin Jack]

I always expect an idiot to pull out or cut me off at a roundabout. I am frequently rewarded by someone who does, but expecting it has kept me out of trouble so far.

An 'idiot'... or a typical error-prone human?

I am perfect
You are error prone
They are idiots.

Yes, I know, but 'idiot' is a convenient shorthand.