revtothelimit - motorbike forum

Count Steer wrote: Sat Mar 01, 2025 7:23 pm

Skub wrote: Sat Mar 01, 2025 1:54 pm The bike seems a good idea on paper,but ultimately sales look like they tell the true story. Riders don't want it.

At the original price.

I bet they shift them now.

Maybe?

I wouldn't want one as a gift.

Count Steer wrote: Sat Mar 01, 2025 7:23 pm

Skub wrote: Sat Mar 01, 2025 1:54 pm The bike seems a good idea on paper,but ultimately sales look like they tell the true story. Riders don't want it.

At the original price.

I bet they shift them now.

I wouldn't be interested at any price.

Good news chaps. They're not compulsory.

Count Steer wrote: Sat Mar 01, 2025 9:44 pm Good news chaps. They're not compulsory.

Phew...

Kawasaki can be praised for giving this a try but the half hearted approach to hybrid power didn't work in the car world and its even worse for bikes. The entire power train needs to be completely rethought to minimize extra weight needed and provide transmission which is seamless and efficient. This could be done for bikes, and probably will be eventually, but the present crop of semi automatics will be hated by most riders.

My hybrid car has no gearbox, just an electric motor/generator connected to the wheels with a fixed reduction ratio. But from the drivers point of view the amount of " engine braking" available can be dialled in to suit their preference, with three different levels of deceleration which is also dynamically adjusted to increase as the car slows down. The petrol engine is similarly not mechanically connected to the accelerator pedal and responds to demand as required, but the driver gets instantaneous response to right foot input that gives brutal acceleration when floored. At all times fuel economy is achieved by using the best specific fuel consumption possible in the engine's power range because the control system chooses rpm and fuelling unconstrained by road speed/mechanical gearing.

This is the pinnacle of development for internal combustion engines and it is to be hoped that it arrives in the bike world before they are banned.

Bike OEMs are definitely looking at high performance hybrids, only a matter of time now. Kawasaki's effort is like the Toyora Yaris Hybrid, but bear in mind McLaren, Ferrari and Lamborghini all make silly high power hybrid cars now. Those super cars all have "normal" gearboxes, so you still get the usual ICE behaviour of charging through the revs...just with a massive boost in midrange and bottom end + instant torque.

Like i said, area of active development in the Business, albeit behind closed doors while they figure out how they're gonna go about it. So many options...

Until there is a major improvement in battery power density and weight, bikes will lag behind developments in the 4 wheel space. Weight and packaging are the two major hurdles to 2 wheel EV or HEV adoption.

The first serious performance Hybrid cars hit the road more than 10 years ago (McLaren P1 etc) and the tech is course several years older than that.

Slightly more normal performance Hyrbids (McLaren Artura etc) have been on the general market for 3 or 4 years now.

So yeah bikes are lagging behind, but if they're a decade behind they're not far off IYSWIM.

First video I have seen that analyses the bike properly, testing all of Kawasaki's claims for it.



Interesting, even if you hate the idea of the bike.

Yup. Interesting.

1. I like that tool cabinet.
2. He doesn't understand what the service battery does*.
3. Not a bad first effort but, maybe, they should have kept things a bit simpler.
4. Pretty good value (at the price he paid for it).
5. It's not pretty and sounds better in electric mode

* ie flips the doodad that connects the power battery. Flat 12v battery = power battery won't, erm, power...as I noes to my own frustration.

Count Steer wrote: Sun Aug 17, 2025 3:11 pm Yup. Interesting.

.......
3. Not a bad first effort but, maybe, they should have kept things a bit simpler........

He has produced dozens and dozens of videos, both as Bikes and Beards and as SRK Cycles (which he owned) over the last 10 years or so.

Whysub wrote: Sun Aug 17, 2025 3:33 pm

Count Steer wrote: Sun Aug 17, 2025 3:11 pm Yup. Interesting.

.......
3. Not a bad first effort but, maybe, they should have kept things a bit simpler........

He has produced dozens and dozens of videos, both as Bikes and Beards and as SRK Cycles (which he owned) over the last 10 years or so.

I meant from Kawasaki!

One thing owing a leccy car has taught me, is that I don’t want a leccy bike!

Kawasaki should be applauded for being the first tier one manufacturer in the hybrid bike market. But this bike does not fully leverage the benefits of a full hybrid implementation.

The electric motor/generator should be the only thing that drives the back wheel and a gearbox should be unnecessary. The engine should run independently to provide electricity at maximum possible efficiency as required. So a more powerful electric motor and a single reduction ratio gearing to connect to the back wheel. No gearbox and no clutch so some weight saving to offset battery weight. If the IC engine is designed and controlled to always run at optimum specific fuel consumption it can also weigh less. As in the car world a smaller operating rpm range, probably fewer cylinders and a turbocharger. There should also be regenerative braking both gently controlled by shutting the throttle and more strongly applied by a rear brake pedal.

roadster wrote: Mon Aug 18, 2025 9:14 am Kawasaki should be applauded for being the first tier one manufacturer in the hybrid bike market. But this bike does not fully leverage the benefits of a full hybrid implementation.

Are you an IT manager?

Yamaha at it too, but you can't buy one.

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new ... ic-hybrid/

Pirahna wrote: Mon Aug 18, 2025 5:28 pm

roadster wrote: Mon Aug 18, 2025 9:14 am Kawasaki should be applauded for being the first tier one manufacturer in the hybrid bike market. But this bike does not fully leverage the benefits of a full hybrid implementation.

Are you an IT manager?

I couldn't manage my way out of a paper bag but I like to think I was an decent engineer/technician/computer specialist before I retired to become an old fossil who accidentally double posts!

Series hybrids (i.e. where the engine drives a generator only, then a motor drives the wheel(s)) have never taken off cause they're not that good an idea. Reasons are far too long for me to type on a phone.

There are thousands of parallel hybrids on the market, across dozens of manufacturers. Also Formula 1. Ones where the engine drives through some sort of gearbox in conjunction with the electric motor(s).

Loads of ways you can do it, but none of them just use the engine to drive a generator. The closest anyone has got to that is the very few "range extender" EVs that have been made, like certain versions of the BMW i3. Or maybe things like the Lamborghinis which use 3 motors, one on the engine and 2 in the front axle, to get 4 wheel drive.

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Tue Aug 19, 2025 9:18 am Series hybrids (i.e. where the engine drives a generator only, then a motor drives the wheel(s)) have never taken off cause they're not that good an idea. Reasons are far too long for me to type on a phone.

There are thousands of parallel hybrids on the market, across dozens of manufacturers. Also Formula 1. Ones where the engine drives through some sort of gearbox in conjunction with the electric motor(s).

Loads of ways you can do it, but none of them just use the engine to drive a generator. The closest anyone has got to that is the very few "range extender" EVs that have been made, like certain versions of the BMW i3. Or maybe things like the Lamborghinis which use 3 motors, one on the engine and 2 in the front axle, to get 4 wheel drive.

Nissan Qashqai E-Power. I drive one and there is an even better one coming out next month. No gearbox and no mechanical connection between ICE and wheels.

Mazda's MX-30 R-EV uses a petrol rotary engine to charge the battery rather than drive the wheels too.