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The bats used by the Wuhan laboratory for research into SARS and other coronaviruses were harvested in caves in Yunnan Province, over 1,000 miles from Wuhan.

I am not aware of any hard evidence that bats were on sale in the Wuhan wet market, but if there is hard evidence then of course I stand to be corrected.

...

Edit: p

irie wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:53 am The bats used by the Wuhan laboratory for research into SARS and other coronaviruses were harvested in caves in Yunnan, Province, over 1,000 miles from Wuhan.

I am not aware of any hard evidence that bats were on sale in the Wuhan wet market, but if there is hard evidence then of course I stand to be corrected.

...

I doubt if there is any hard evidence anywhere but the conjecture that this wild animal zoo has become a filthy breeding ground for cross contamination of confined animals transported 100's or 1000's of miles is the theory I subscribe to.

As posted recently, being vegan seems to increase risk too!

Edit: although search doesn't find it

DEADPOOL wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:02 pm

irie wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:53 am The bats used by the Wuhan laboratory for research into SARS and other coronaviruses were harvested in caves in Yunnan, Province, over 1,000 miles from Wuhan.

I am not aware of any hard evidence that bats were on sale in the Wuhan wet market, but if there is hard evidence then of course I stand to be corrected.

...

I doubt if there is any hard evidence anywhere but the conjecture that this wild animal zoo has become a filthy breeding ground for cross contamination of confined animals transported 100's or 1000's of miles is the theory I subscribe to.

There is hard published evidence, not only on the Internet but also in scientific journals and published papers, that the Wuhan laboratory harvested bats from the Yunnan caves.

irie wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:24 am
These "Main pre-existing conditions" are from the ONS (2020) and are ranked with the highest risk first.

Dementia and Alzheimer's disease
Ischaemic heart diseases
Influenza and pneumonia
Chronic lower respiratory diseases
Cerebrovascular diseases
Diabetes
Diseases of the urinary system
Hypertensive diseases *
Heart failure and complications and ill-defined heart disease
Malignant neoplasms of lymphoid haematopoietic and related tissue
Malignant neoplasm of trachea bronchus and lung
Parkinson's disease
Malignant neoplasm of prostate
Cardiac arrhythmias
Cirrhosis and other diseases of liver
Fracture of femur
Pulmonary oedema and other intestinal pulmonary diseases
Malignant neoplasms of breast
(more)

<snip>

I've just read it again. After all the reports in the news, I'm surprised that neither being a fat bastard nor being black made it onto the list.

Saga Lout wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:25 pm

irie wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:24 am
These "Main pre-existing conditions" are from the ONS (2020) and are ranked with the highest risk first.

Dementia and Alzheimer's disease
Ischaemic heart diseases
Influenza and pneumonia
Chronic lower respiratory diseases
Cerebrovascular diseases
Diabetes
Diseases of the urinary system
Hypertensive diseases *
Heart failure and complications and ill-defined heart disease
Malignant neoplasms of lymphoid haematopoietic and related tissue
Malignant neoplasm of trachea bronchus and lung
Parkinson's disease
Malignant neoplasm of prostate
Cardiac arrhythmias
Cirrhosis and other diseases of liver
Fracture of femur
Pulmonary oedema and other intestinal pulmonary diseases
Malignant neoplasms of breast
(more)

<snip>

I've just read it again. After all the reports in the news, I'm surprised that neither being a fat bastard nor being black made it onto the list.

Or being a man though they would need to make a distnction about sex asigned at birth.

Horse wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:07 pm As posted recently, being vegan seems to increase risk too!

Edit: although search doesn't find it

Every cloud and all that.

irie wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:10 pm
There is hard published evidence, not only on the Internet but also in scientific journals and published papers, that the Wuhan laboratory harvested bats from the Yunnan caves.

Interesting. Got any links?

"Escaped from a lab" is also compelling but ISTR the source was in fact traced to an individual who frequented the Wuhan market.

Clearly an infected employee of a virus laboratory might have transported the virus to the Wuhan market but then why wasn't a lab employee the confirmed source? Maybe disinformation, cover up whatever but then again, why would a lab worker with all their knowledge about infectious viruses go anywhere near a wet market unless they had an agenda?

Eating a contaminated animal or becoming infected while preparing the "food" is also a reasonable theory but what we do know is is that the primary mechanism is aerosol for these respiratory viruses so you'd have to be handling a live bat with the intention to eat it. The transport mechanism which relies on physical contact with an infected surface is to my limited understanding, vastly less likely. Yes, you might ingest it but who is going to eat off a lab technician?

Bat is not a delicacy so far as I am aware whereas pangolin is, either way, you're not going to eat it raw. You would have to believe that a trained laboratory staff member is more likely to allow themselves to become infected than some peasant farmer who just spent a few days/weeks in close contact with live wild animals.

I lean more towards the theory that whoever was collecting these animals is more likely to have become infected by a living host than a lab tech. I would be very interested to see those links you refer to which refute my pet theory. See what I did there...

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01 ... g-globally

he paper, written by a large group of Chinese researchers from several institutions, offers details about the first 41 hospitalized patients who had confirmed infections with what has been dubbed 2019 novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV). In the earliest case, the patient became ill on 1 December 2019 and had no reported link to the seafood market, the authors report. “No epidemiological link was found between the first patient and later cases,” they state. Their data also show that, in total, 13 of the 41 cases had no link to the marketplace. “That’s a big number, 13, with no link,” says Daniel Lucey, an infectious disease specialist at Georgetown University.

SARs has escaped from their labs two, maybe three times.

The World Health Organization has confirmed that breaches of safety procedures on at least two occasions at one of Beijing's top virology laboratories were the probable cause of the outbreak of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) there last month, which infected nine people, one of whom died.

The woman responsible for the coronavirus bat research thought herself it might have come from her lab

Shi, a virologist who is often called China’s “bat woman” by her colleagues because of her virus-hunting expeditions in bat caves over the past 16 years, walked out of the conference she was attending in Shanghai and hopped on the next train back to Wuhan. “I wondered if [the municipal health authority] got it wrong,” she says. “I had never expected this kind of thing to happen in Wuhan, in central China.” Her studies had shown that the southern, subtropical provinces of Guangdong, Guangxi and Yunnan have the greatest risk of coronaviruses jumping to humans from animals—particularly bats, a known reservoir. If coronaviruses were the culprit, she remembers thinking, “Could they have come from our lab?”

Of course she goes on to say she tested all her samples and confirms it didn't *cough*bullshit*cough*. Like the CCP would let her tell the world they caused the worldwide pandemic.

Conclusive, nope, but still a lot more evidence pointing that way than your pangolin story.

DEADPOOL wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:49 pm

irie wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:10 pm
There is hard published evidence, not only on the Internet but also in scientific journals and published papers, that the Wuhan laboratory harvested bats from the Yunnan caves.

Interesting. Got any links?

Just for starters, Google search for "Wuhan bats from Yunnan caves", then follow the links.

That said I so believe Crystal Skulls were crafted by the ancient inhabitants of Atlantis and are powerful centres of healing.

Finland Doesn't Exist?

Now there's one I need to look up

Blime, George Soros doesn't exist.

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:10 pm Finland Doesn't Exist?

Having spent time in Finland, that's just wishful thinking.

irie wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:51 pm Just for starters, Google search for "Wuhan bats from Yunnan caves", then follow the links.

Top result: https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... onavirus1/

"Although humans could have caught the deadly virus from bats directly (according to several studies, including those by Shi and her colleagues), independent teams have suggested that pangolins may have been an intermediate host."

So unless you are in fact agreeing with my assessment of this situation, you will need to find some other link to refute it. Not a generic search term which supports it.

LOL - it wasn't made in a lab, it was found in bats in Yunnan caves, horseshoe bats to be precise. It most likely did leak from a lab... I am always amazed people are so willing to believe, with zero evidence, the pangolin story, when the real culprit stares them in the face. The shoddy bio-lab slap bang in the centre of the outbreak, which was testing and playing with the very virus that got into the human population, in the same town.

What are the odds of that... pmsl.

I'm sure some would believe the CCP if they said they have brought back Elvis DNA from the moon.

DEADPOOL wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:31 pm

irie wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:51 pm Just for starters, Google search for "Wuhan bats from Yunnan caves", then follow the links.

Top result: https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... onavirus1/

"Although humans could have caught the deadly virus from bats directly (according to several studies, including those by Shi and her colleagues), independent teams have suggested that pangolins may have been an intermediate host."

So unless you are in fact agreeing with my assessment of this situation, you will need to find some other link to refute it. Not a generic search term which supports it.

Intrigued to why you add so much weight to the may, but not the could.

DEADPOOL wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:31 pm

irie wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:51 pm Just for starters, Google search for "Wuhan bats from Yunnan caves", then follow the links.

Top result: https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... onavirus1/

"Although humans could have caught the deadly virus from bats directly (according to several studies, including those by Shi and her colleagues), independent teams have suggested that pangolins may have been an intermediate host."

So unless you are in fact agreeing with my assessment of this situation, you will need to find some other link to refute it. Not a generic search term which supports it.

Plural.

cheb wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:17 pm Blime, George Soros doesn't exist.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/ ... story.html

Wreckless Rat wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:34 pm LOL - it wasn't made in a lab, it was found in bats in Yunnan caves, horseshoe bats to be precise. It most likely did leak from a lab... I am always amazed people are so willing to believe, with zero evidence, the pangolin story, when the real culprit stares them in the face. The shoddy bio-lab slap bang in the centre of the outbreak, which was testing and playing with the very virus that got into the human population, in the same town.

What are the odds of that... pmsl.

I'm sure some would believe the CCP if they said they have brought back Elvis DNA from the moon.

I am aware the SARS-CoV-2 virus shows no evidence of being manufactured in a lab. I have been banging that drum since the start of last year. LOLz all you like but that merely displays your ignorance about how previous respiratory viruses have been transferred to humans. SARS from civets and MIRS from camels.

There actually is plenty of evidence that the SARS-CoV-2 virus may have been transferred from an intermediary host and specifically a pangolin. Pangolin is also the worlds most highly trafficked mammal, highly prized and immensely valuable.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591- ... c1LBx8-N24

"Malayan pangolins (Manis javanica) illegally imported into Guangdong province contain coronaviruses similar to SARS-CoV-221. Although the RaTG13 bat virus remains the closest to SARS-CoV-2 across the genome1, some pangolin coronaviruses exhibit strong similarity to SARS-CoV-2 in the RBD, including all six key RBD residues21 (Fig. 1). This clearly shows that the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein optimized for binding to human-like ACE2 is the result of natural selection."

If you're going to pmsl, just be careful not to infect anyone else.

As for the source, so far as I am aware the following is a reliable source for identifying the region of origin. And it nails it firmly down to people visiting the Wuhan market.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 3620301835

For any other mindless parrots, there are two "virus labs" people often confuse to support their narrative. One is the Wuhan Institute of Virology, in Hubei, miles from the Wuhan South China Seafood market and on the other side of the Yangtze. The other "lab" is is the Wuhan Centre for Disease Control and Prevention. That's the one a couple of hundred metres from the market where the outbreak appears to have originated.

The CDC is the one you refer to as "The shoddy bio-lab slap bang in the centre of the outbreak, which was testing and playing with the very virus that got into the human population, in the same town." A common and oft repeated mistake people often make when trying to promote their narrative. If you can be bothered to even look, you will not find anything shoddy to it.

Finally: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-78703-6

"Therefore, the pangolin is considered a potential intermediate host of SARS-CoV-211,12,13. It has been proposed that the receptor-binding domain (RBD) of the S protein in SARS-CoV-2 might be resulted from recombination between a virus similar or related to Bat-CoV-RaTG13 and a virus similar or related to Pangolin-CoV-201911,12,14,15."

I submit my evidence and sources from which I deduce my own favoured opinion. Other opinions are available but for those who want to laugh and piss themselves I shall require more compelling evidence other than being taunted by a gibbering baboon with damp trousers.