Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

[slowsider]

[Taipan]

Strange I thought EVs ran on an unlimited supply of Sanctimonium?

[Pirahna]

I'm in the market for a new vehicle to replace the VW Kombi. I live a mile up a rutted, rocky gravel track, the Kombi is lowered and needs careful placement in a few spots, it struggles for grip in a few places as well. The new vehicle will be 4x4, seat 4 comfortably (5 at a push) and have decent load space. It'll need to carry anything from a tonne of logs to the weekly shopping, to taking me and my camping stuff on holiday. At the moment I'm struggling to see past a new Ford Ranger Wildcat.

[Mussels]

I'm in the market for a new vehicle to replace the VW Kombi. I live a mile up a rutted, rocky gravel track, the Kombi is lowered and needs careful placement in a few spots, it struggles for grip in a few places as well. The new vehicle will be 4x4, seat 4 comfortably (5 at a push) and have decent load space. It'll need to carry anything from a tonne of logs to the weekly shopping, to taking me and my camping stuff on holiday. At the moment I'm struggling to see past a new Ford Ranger Wildcat.

I think you'll struggle to find a normal 4x4 that does that, you'll be looking at a pickup conversion with leaf springs.

[Pirahna]

I'm in the market for a new vehicle to replace the VW Kombi. I live a mile up a rutted, rocky gravel track, the Kombi is lowered and needs careful placement in a few spots, it struggles for grip in a few places as well. The new vehicle will be 4x4, seat 4 comfortably (5 at a push) and have decent load space. It'll need to carry anything from a tonne of logs to the weekly shopping, to taking me and my camping stuff on holiday. At the moment I'm struggling to see past a new Ford Ranger Wildcat.

I think you'll struggle to find a normal 4x4 that does that, you'll be looking at a pickup conversion with leaf springs.

I've narrowed it down to either a Hilux or Ranger. On paper (and Youtube) the new Ranger looks like the one to go for. I'll pop by the Ford dealer in the morning to find out when I can get one.

[Dodgy69]

Ford ranger wildtrak, all day long. Lovely comfortable drive and a nice tidy interior.

[wheelnut]

Or the Navara - with proper springs all round it (imo) gives a better ride than its leaf springed rivals.

And a bit cheaper.

[Pirahna]

Or the Navara - with proper springs all round it (imo) gives a better ride than its leaf springed rivals.

And a bit cheaper.

The Ranger is coil springs all round, there's a new model for 2023 and it looks a bit good. The Toyota is leaf on the back but has apparently been set up with the truck bed empty in attempt to improve the ride. My current ride is a VW Kombi but it's a T32, the ride as standard was crap. I've a full Bilstein setup all round and it's better but not the best.

The problem is getting hold of trucks, I live in Spain. I've got Ford and Toyota dealers 30 minutes away, Isuzu dealer is an hour, no idea where to go for a Navara. Merc stopped making the X Class as did VW with the Amarok, there's a new Amarok coming next year based on the 2023 Ford Ranger. Mitsubishi are apparently leaving Europe and taking the L200 with them.

[Ant]

Is there an option for electric car owners to pay any form of tax at all?

[Horse]

Is there an option for electric car owners to pay any form of tax at all?

Two ways it's likely to happen in the future
- 'smart' charging, when at home your supplier will charge a different cost to domestic power use
- road pricing. Given that all new cars have e-call systems (and over-air software updates eg Tesla), it's only a small step to the car logging and reporting use.

[Mussels]

Is there an option for electric car owners to pay any form of tax at all?

Two ways it's likely to happen in the future
- 'smart' charging, when at home your supplier will charge a different cost to domestic power use
- road pricing. Given that all new cars have e-call systems (and over-air software updates eg Tesla), it's only a small step to the car logging and reporting use.

I can't see smart charging working, people will quickly find a way around that.
Road pricing might not be as simple as some say, GPS isn't accurate enough for a detailed view and a car's odometer is easy to fool. At a simple level people will over inflate tyres which isn't ideal.

[Mr. Dazzle]

ANPR?

'All' you need to do it set a blanket minimum price and then add ANPR anywhere you leave/re-enter the base price roads (motorway slip roads for example).

GPS is accurate enough to then say how many miles you've driven and the ANPR knows how much of that is on premium priced roads.

All it takes to fool ANPR is a slightly iffy plate too.

Ant clearly isn't familiar with the concept of a tax incentive

[Horse]

Is there an option for electric car owners to pay any form of tax at all?

Two ways it's likely to happen in the future
- 'smart' charging, when at home your supplier will charge a different cost to domestic power use
- road pricing. Given that all new cars have e-call systems (and over-air software updates eg Tesla), it's only a small step to the car logging and reporting use.

I can't see smart charging working, people will quickly find a way around that.
Road pricing might not be as simple as some say, GPS isn't accurate enough for a detailed view and a car's odometer is easy to fool.

I know next to nothing about both possibilities - or how easy they would be to overcome.

For charging, presumably you mean running an extension lead from 3 pin plug? Will that provide the same rate of charge as a dedicated system?

And will Joe or Josephine Public really want to start fiddling with their car's sensors and electronics?

[Mussels]

ANPR?

'All' you need to do it set a blanket minimum price and then add ANPR anywhere you leave/re-enter the base price roads (motorway slip roads for example).

Ant clearly isn't familiar with the concept of a tax incentive

ANPR would certainly work but there will be all sorts of protests about how it disproportionately affects city dwellers, it will be called racist, transphobic and whatever else is the issue of the day.
If it is limited to motorways then people will avoid them and clog up residential areas, retail parks will complain customers are being driven away. They do need a way to make up the tax shortfall but I can't see a simple method to use distance travelled.

[Mussels]

Two ways it's likely to happen in the future
- 'smart' charging, when at home your supplier will charge a different cost to domestic power use
- road pricing. Given that all new cars have e-call systems (and over-air software updates eg Tesla), it's only a small step to the car logging and reporting use.

I can't see smart charging working, people will quickly find a way around that.
Road pricing might not be as simple as some say, GPS isn't accurate enough for a detailed view and a car's odometer is easy to fool.

I know next to nothing about both possibilities - or how easy they would be to overcome.

For charging, presumably you mean running an extension lead from 3 pin plug? Will that provide the same rate of charge as a dedicated system?

And will Joe or Josephine Public really want to start fiddling with their car's sensors and electronics?

If there's money to be made then someone will develop and sell kits, on a simpler level I've fitted larger tyres before which dropped the recorded mileage by 10%.

Charging rate can be dropped so it looks like something else, if you have a 'power wall' then the leccy company won't have a clue what you are charging.

[Couchy]

I'm in the market for a new vehicle to replace the VW Kombi. I live a mile up a rutted, rocky gravel track, the Kombi is lowered and needs careful placement in a few spots, it struggles for grip in a few places as well. The new vehicle will be 4x4, seat 4 comfortably (5 at a push) and have decent load space. It'll need to carry anything from a tonne of logs to the weekly shopping, to taking me and my camping stuff on holiday. At the moment I'm struggling to see past a new Ford Ranger Wildcat.

Has your load area got to be waterproof and secure ?

I assume you’ve driven a pick up so have lowered your expectation of comfy and can live with 25mpg ? One of our subbies has the new 2.0 wildtrak and that’s the mpg he’s getting with little load in the back.

Would a transit trail crewcab be better ?

[Docca]

One company got back to me today following a home EV install - nothing until ‘mid 2023’. Jeez

[Couchy]

Is there an option for electric car owners to pay any form of tax at all?

Yup the majority of charge points installed have smart meters in them, it’ll be as simple as electric used to charge the car will be taxed. Public charge points are already £1 a kw* in places so add duty and using them will be even more expensive than now. Most domestic also have meters built in. There’ll be a huge fine for anyone charging from a non metered supply.

Anyone charging at more than 60p a kw is paying more per mile than a 50mpg diesel already. Plus the monthly payment which is already a lot higher than an ICE car an EV isn’t going to be a cheap option especially once fuel duty arrives. We’ve had the cheapest motoring and it’s only gonna get more expensive.

[Ant]

ANPR?

Ant clearly isn't familiar with the concept of a tax incentive

Aren't I?

Why?

[Mr. Dazzle]

If you charge from a 3 pin socket it takes ages just cause 3 pin sockets can only output 3kW. That sets a fairly hard limit on how many miles you can do, simply because you can't fill your car up at more than 3kW. It's like only having a petrol pump with a drinking straw sized hose.

So from that, you can see it wouldn't be too absurd to just tax high power draw. Any charging at more than 3kW must be using a dedicated charger, therefore you can record and tax it. Anything less than 3kW corresponds to low mileage anyway, a bit like how you get a tax free income allowance.

You could of course 'hack' the system by using a non monitoring charger, but that's similar to how you can hack cig duty by buying from the back of a van.