Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

[Pirahna]

I'm in the market for a new vehicle to replace the VW Kombi. I live a mile up a rutted, rocky gravel track, the Kombi is lowered and needs careful placement in a few spots, it struggles for grip in a few places as well. The new vehicle will be 4x4, seat 4 comfortably (5 at a push) and have decent load space. It'll need to carry anything from a tonne of logs to the weekly shopping, to taking me and my camping stuff on holiday. At the moment I'm struggling to see past a new Ford Ranger Wildcat.

I think you'll struggle to find a normal 4x4 that does that, you'll be looking at a pickup conversion with leaf springs.

I've narrowed it down to either a Hilux or Ranger. On paper (and Youtube) the new Ranger looks like the one to go for. I'll pop by the Ford dealer in the morning to find out when I can get one.

[Dodgy69]

Ford ranger wildtrak, all day long. Lovely comfortable drive and a nice tidy interior.

[wheelnut]

Or the Navara - with proper springs all round it (imo) gives a better ride than its leaf springed rivals.

And a bit cheaper.

[Pirahna]

Or the Navara - with proper springs all round it (imo) gives a better ride than its leaf springed rivals.

And a bit cheaper.

The Ranger is coil springs all round, there's a new model for 2023 and it looks a bit good. The Toyota is leaf on the back but has apparently been set up with the truck bed empty in attempt to improve the ride. My current ride is a VW Kombi but it's a T32, the ride as standard was crap. I've a full Bilstein setup all round and it's better but not the best.

The problem is getting hold of trucks, I live in Spain. I've got Ford and Toyota dealers 30 minutes away, Isuzu dealer is an hour, no idea where to go for a Navara. Merc stopped making the X Class as did VW with the Amarok, there's a new Amarok coming next year based on the 2023 Ford Ranger. Mitsubishi are apparently leaving Europe and taking the L200 with them.

[Ant]

Is there an option for electric car owners to pay any form of tax at all?

[Horse]

Is there an option for electric car owners to pay any form of tax at all?

Two ways it's likely to happen in the future
- 'smart' charging, when at home your supplier will charge a different cost to domestic power use
- road pricing. Given that all new cars have e-call systems (and over-air software updates eg Tesla), it's only a small step to the car logging and reporting use.

[Mussels]

Is there an option for electric car owners to pay any form of tax at all?

Two ways it's likely to happen in the future
- 'smart' charging, when at home your supplier will charge a different cost to domestic power use
- road pricing. Given that all new cars have e-call systems (and over-air software updates eg Tesla), it's only a small step to the car logging and reporting use.

I can't see smart charging working, people will quickly find a way around that.
Road pricing might not be as simple as some say, GPS isn't accurate enough for a detailed view and a car's odometer is easy to fool. At a simple level people will over inflate tyres which isn't ideal.

[Mr. Dazzle]

ANPR?

'All' you need to do it set a blanket minimum price and then add ANPR anywhere you leave/re-enter the base price roads (motorway slip roads for example).

GPS is accurate enough to then say how many miles you've driven and the ANPR knows how much of that is on premium priced roads.

All it takes to fool ANPR is a slightly iffy plate too.

Ant clearly isn't familiar with the concept of a tax incentive

[Horse]

Is there an option for electric car owners to pay any form of tax at all?

Two ways it's likely to happen in the future
- 'smart' charging, when at home your supplier will charge a different cost to domestic power use
- road pricing. Given that all new cars have e-call systems (and over-air software updates eg Tesla), it's only a small step to the car logging and reporting use.

I can't see smart charging working, people will quickly find a way around that.
Road pricing might not be as simple as some say, GPS isn't accurate enough for a detailed view and a car's odometer is easy to fool.

I know next to nothing about both possibilities - or how easy they would be to overcome.

For charging, presumably you mean running an extension lead from 3 pin plug? Will that provide the same rate of charge as a dedicated system?

And will Joe or Josephine Public really want to start fiddling with their car's sensors and electronics?

[Mussels]

ANPR?

'All' you need to do it set a blanket minimum price and then add ANPR anywhere you leave/re-enter the base price roads (motorway slip roads for example).

Ant clearly isn't familiar with the concept of a tax incentive

ANPR would certainly work but there will be all sorts of protests about how it disproportionately affects city dwellers, it will be called racist, transphobic and whatever else is the issue of the day.
If it is limited to motorways then people will avoid them and clog up residential areas, retail parks will complain customers are being driven away. They do need a way to make up the tax shortfall but I can't see a simple method to use distance travelled.

[Mussels]

Two ways it's likely to happen in the future
- 'smart' charging, when at home your supplier will charge a different cost to domestic power use
- road pricing. Given that all new cars have e-call systems (and over-air software updates eg Tesla), it's only a small step to the car logging and reporting use.

I can't see smart charging working, people will quickly find a way around that.
Road pricing might not be as simple as some say, GPS isn't accurate enough for a detailed view and a car's odometer is easy to fool.

I know next to nothing about both possibilities - or how easy they would be to overcome.

For charging, presumably you mean running an extension lead from 3 pin plug? Will that provide the same rate of charge as a dedicated system?

And will Joe or Josephine Public really want to start fiddling with their car's sensors and electronics?

If there's money to be made then someone will develop and sell kits, on a simpler level I've fitted larger tyres before which dropped the recorded mileage by 10%.

Charging rate can be dropped so it looks like something else, if you have a 'power wall' then the leccy company won't have a clue what you are charging.

[Couchy]

I'm in the market for a new vehicle to replace the VW Kombi. I live a mile up a rutted, rocky gravel track, the Kombi is lowered and needs careful placement in a few spots, it struggles for grip in a few places as well. The new vehicle will be 4x4, seat 4 comfortably (5 at a push) and have decent load space. It'll need to carry anything from a tonne of logs to the weekly shopping, to taking me and my camping stuff on holiday. At the moment I'm struggling to see past a new Ford Ranger Wildcat.

Has your load area got to be waterproof and secure ?

I assume you’ve driven a pick up so have lowered your expectation of comfy and can live with 25mpg ? One of our subbies has the new 2.0 wildtrak and that’s the mpg he’s getting with little load in the back.

Would a transit trail crewcab be better ?

[Docca]

One company got back to me today following a home EV install - nothing until ‘mid 2023’. Jeez

[Couchy]

Is there an option for electric car owners to pay any form of tax at all?

Yup the majority of charge points installed have smart meters in them, it’ll be as simple as electric used to charge the car will be taxed. Public charge points are already £1 a kw* in places so add duty and using them will be even more expensive than now. Most domestic also have meters built in. There’ll be a huge fine for anyone charging from a non metered supply.

Anyone charging at more than 60p a kw is paying more per mile than a 50mpg diesel already. Plus the monthly payment which is already a lot higher than an ICE car an EV isn’t going to be a cheap option especially once fuel duty arrives. We’ve had the cheapest motoring and it’s only gonna get more expensive.

[Ant]

ANPR?

Ant clearly isn't familiar with the concept of a tax incentive

Aren't I?

Why?

[Mr. Dazzle]

If you charge from a 3 pin socket it takes ages just cause 3 pin sockets can only output 3kW. That sets a fairly hard limit on how many miles you can do, simply because you can't fill your car up at more than 3kW. It's like only having a petrol pump with a drinking straw sized hose.

So from that, you can see it wouldn't be too absurd to just tax high power draw. Any charging at more than 3kW must be using a dedicated charger, therefore you can record and tax it. Anything less than 3kW corresponds to low mileage anyway, a bit like how you get a tax free income allowance.

You could of course 'hack' the system by using a non monitoring charger, but that's similar to how you can hack cig duty by buying from the back of a van.

[Slenver]

I assume you’ve driven a pick up so have lowered your expectation of comfy and can live with 25mpg ? One of our subbies has the new 2.0 wildtrak and that’s the mpg he’s getting with little load in the back.

I'd second this having owned an L200 and Navara (and loaned a Ranger). They fulfill a role and millions of people are perfectly happy with them, but they're compromised compared to a 'proper' car, if that's an issue. The Navara and Mitsi were both pretty agricultural really - rough old engines, poor economy, handled like boats. Plus the Navara chassis nearly snapped in half like they all did and had to be sent to Spain to be bodged better, after we'd already paid for a first bodge ourselves as Nissan refused to bodge it until it had passed its MOT.

In fairness, the Ranger was worlds ahead, but then it was the 3.2 V6, so a very different level of cost. But still very expensive to run.

Also, don't forget commercial insurance, so a bit more expensive and you can't use your 'normal' NCB.

Frankly, I couldn't wait to get rid of the bastards, but clearly if you need to regularly shift a ton of wood then you have a need for such things. I have my old Landy for that and a real car for driving about in

[wheelnut]

Has your load area got to be waterproof and secure ?

I assume you’ve driven a pick up so have lowered your expectation of comfy and can live with 25mpg ? One of our subbies has the new 2.0 wildtrak and that’s the mpg he’s getting with little load in the back.

Would a transit trail crewcab be better ?

I've got a 21 Navara Tekna and it's comfy as any car I've driven and probably more relaxing to drive long distances than the mercedes A250 I had previously. Before the A250 I has an xtrail - the navara interior is pretty much the same. Loads of rear legroom and averages about 31mpg.

Downsides are that it can be a bit tight in smaller car park spaces but that's going to be the same with any commercial vehicle.

I did have misgivings when I bought it, but overall really happy with it.

[Pirahna]

I'm in the market for a new vehicle to replace the VW Kombi. I live a mile up a rutted, rocky gravel track, the Kombi is lowered and needs careful placement in a few spots, it struggles for grip in a few places as well. The new vehicle will be 4x4, seat 4 comfortably (5 at a push) and have decent load space. It'll need to carry anything from a tonne of logs to the weekly shopping, to taking me and my camping stuff on holiday. At the moment I'm struggling to see past a new Ford Ranger Wildcat.

Has your load area got to be waterproof and secure ?

I assume you’ve driven a pick up so have lowered your expectation of comfy and can live with 25mpg ? One of our subbies has the new 2.0 wildtrak and that’s the mpg he’s getting with little load in the back.

Would a transit trail crewcab be better ?

That's very low on fuel consumption, I've seen a mix of figures reported. I've seen a long term The current VW has the 204hp twin turbo engine with a DSG gearbox, driving around I get around 30mpg, I would expect fuel figures to be around the same. Maybe I need to lower my expectations?

I've driven pickups and vans for years and know exactly how comfy they are. The Transit Trail is bigger than I want to go, I could go for another Kombi with a small lift and all terrains, tick the box for rough road suspension would get me where I need to go without going to 4x4.

The current van has to go at some point, I'm in Spain on UK plates and the Spanish police seem to love foreign registered vans. The local Police are fine, it's the Policia National and Guarda Civil that like to follow along or stop for a chat. It's MOT'd until next July, if I can get rid before that I'll be happy.

[Mussels]

If you charge from a 3 pin socket it takes ages just cause 3 pin sockets can only output 3kW. That sets a fairly hard limit on how many miles you can do, simply because you can't fill your car up at more than 3kW. It's like only having a petrol pump with a drinking straw sized hose.

So from that, you can see it wouldn't be too absurd to just tax high power draw. Any charging at more than 3kW must be using a dedicated charger, therefore you can record and tax it. Anything less than 3kW corresponds to low mileage anyway, a bit like how you get a tax free income allowance.

You could of course 'hack' the system by using a non monitoring charger, but that's similar to how you can hack cig duty by buying from the back of a van.

3KW * 24 hours * 3.5 miles per KWh is about 250 miles per day's charging.
That will suit most people most of the time, especially if alternate charging methods are more expensive.