Job satisfaction and happiness... is it all down to money ?

[Docca]

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There’s a lot of truth in that graphic, but it’s not black and white. Sometimes a challenge is best avoided and a problem sometimes is best solved by using past experience rather than by risk taking.

Absolutely. I just like it as a reference. There are many references I call upon to try abs navigate the pea soup of my own responsibility and as you rightly say, it’s never black and white.

[JackyJoll]

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There’s a lot of truth in that graphic, but it’s not black and white. Sometimes a challenge is best avoided and a problem sometimes is best solved by using past experience rather than by risk taking.

The green side looks like wishful thinking to me.

[Taipan]

I thought it was grandiosity in full effect!

[Mr. Dazzle]

What do you find fulfilling about work

THat's a whole different thread in itself...but very briefly.

- It's difficult.
- It has a tangible outcome which other people can see / use. One of the very best thing about my job is the "I built that!" feeling when you see someone drive by in one of your cars / ride your bicycle on TV / when you fly on a plane you worked on. "Home" projects just don't cut it in the same way for me
- Cheesy as it sounds, it "makes the world better". Some of the time at least, I have also worked on stuff which would make people's day a hell of a lot worse. But not any more thankfully.
- I get to work with other people with the same mentality as me. I like solving problems, but I really like solving problems with other people of a similar mindset.

[Jody]

That's the Peter Principle, "...people in a hierarchy tend to rise to their "level of incompetence": employees are promoted based on their success in previous jobs until they reach a level at which they are no longer competent, as skills in one job do not necessarily translate to another."

IME that starts as a tech to junior management phenomenon. People assume that because he was a good shop floor guy then he'll naturally be a good supervisor or manager.

If you can manage ten people well then you can manage ten thousand.
The problem gets into middle management when the Peter Principle people drift further up and then employ more Peter Principle people to replace them.

There is some sort of theory about it, something like if you rate people on a scale of one to ten, then you must only have nines and tens in your team, because if you employ sevens and eights then they in turn will employ fives and sixes - then within a few years you've got fives and sixes in middle management and threes and fours under them. Then the corporate machine creates leadership schemes to fast track the fives and sixes and at some point you become Carillion and you've seen how that ends.

That happens a lot in my industry (Travel and Tourism). When I worked at Hotelplan the policy was "if you finished a season as a host, you can be a manager". The camping companies I worked for were similar " That guy and his Mrs did a great job on that 2 person campsite, lets make him an area manager and her in charge of a 12 person site"

The depressing bit is seeing good 'hosts' pushed into positions they aren't ready for, with not enough support, then they quit and they are gone forever.

[slowsider]

Yebbut, I imagine most wave-riders do it in their own time.

[Whysub]

I spent 20 years in a role i loved. Great pay even with regular 16 hour days, sometimes 7 days a week, fantastic colleagues who I would trust with my life, interesting and highly rewarding work, plus I got to ride expensive bikes and drive some high performance cars very fast.

But then we started to get bosses dropped in above us who had no idea of the work we did, nor did they want to know. A number of my colleagues saw the writing on the wall and left for other jobs. That left fewer and fewer of us to cover their work.

New staff drafted in were all direct from Uni and 75% of them were worse than useless, didn't really want to do the job, and lasted no more than a year befire they left or were "let go".

So as soon as I could financially afford it, I retired. Which turned out to be 6 years earlier that I planned to. I just could not stand the toxic management structure any longer. Those of us that just wanted to do our jobs were all marked as having no ambition because we did not apply for promotion.

So, sold my terraced house in the UK and bought a much bigger detached house on a 5000 sq metre plot in semi rural Spain. Most days I potter around the garden doing whatever needs doing, or go out on foot or MTB on the mountain tracks that start at my front gate, or down to town for a very leisurely lunch. Life is as slow as I want to make it and I do not miss working one little bit. I have taken to retirement like a duck to water, although I do know it won't suit everyone.

Don't miss the wages, the stress, the constant interference by management, nor the 120 mile daily commute all year round. Only thing I miss from work are my colleagues, but hopefully there are a number of them coming over for a few weeks once Covid travel restrictions lift.

[weeksy]

Yebbut, I imagine most wave-riders do it in their own time.

Was that a DC Legends of tomorrow joke ?

[slowsider]

Yebbut, I imagine most wave-riders do it in their own time.

Was that a DC Legends of tomorrow joke ?

Im the silver surfer ?

No it was a response to iccy. Most jobs don't fully fulfil people.

[Yorick]

I spent 20 years in a role i loved. Great pay even with regular 16 hour days, sometimes 7 days a week, fantastic colleagues who I would trust with my life, interesting and highly rewarding work, plus I got to ride expensive bikes and drive some high performance cars very fast.

But then we started to get bosses dropped in above us who had no idea of the work we did, nor did they want to know. A number of my colleagues saw the writing on the wall and left for other jobs. That left fewer and fewer of us to cover their work.

New staff drafted in were all direct from Uni and 75% of them were worse than useless, didn't really want to do the job, and lasted no more than a year befire they left or were "let go".

So as soon as I could financially afford it, I retired. Which turned out to be 6 years earlier that I planned to. I just could not stand the toxic management structure any longer. Those of us that just wanted to do our jobs were all marked as having no ambition because we did not apply for promotion.

So, sold my terraced house in the UK and bought a much bigger detached house on a 5000 sq metre plot in semi rural Spain. Most days I potter around the garden doing whatever needs doing, or go out on foot or MTB on the mountain tracks that start at my front gate, or down to town for a very leisurely lunch. Life is as slow as I want to make it and I do not miss working one little bit. I have taken to retirement like a duck to water, although I do know it won't suit everyone.

Yo tambien amigo

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

What do you find fulfilling about work, my job is part of generating money for capitalists, it's not fulfilling in anyway, but it pays well.

If I wanted fulfillment I'd be helping the poor people of the world.

That sounds like slow death to me, there is no way I could keep turning up to do something that was not fulfilling in any way.

Life is short, ride some waves before you waste it all.

It's work, it's why they pay me, I've got a good life outside of work so I'm happy.

I had a job where I attempted to make the world a slightly better place but the company I worked for were more interested in profit that the environment.

I'd love to work for an organisation that makes the world a better place, but I don't fit with the whiney, self righteous lefties that generally work at these places, so I'll carry on working for somewhere that makes a profit out of a capitalist system that makes people miserable by encouraging them to buy things they don't need, I am massively cynical about consumerism, but when you see ship loads of shite that no one needs and that only brings fleeting happiness, you see consumerism for what it is, a way of rich people getting richer by exploiting the poor and stupid.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

No it was a response to iccy. Most jobs don't fully fulfil people.

I doubt any job would, I bet even astronauts and pornstars have days when they just can't be arsed.
But to sit in a job for years that gives you literally nothing back except money seems like a terrible waste of your life to me, especially when you don't have to.

I think most people try and achieve a mix of reward and satisfaction.

I used to know someone who had a small porn empire, she was far more cynical than me.

[Yorick]

So, sold my terraced house in the UK and bought a much bigger detached house on a 5000 sq metre plot in semi rural Spain. Most days I potter around the garden doing whatever needs doing

Kin 'ell, that makes my 1.500m plot look like tiny

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

So, sold my terraced house in the UK and bought a much bigger detached house on a 5000 sq metre plot in semi rural Spain. Most days I potter around the garden doing whatever needs doing

Kin 'ell, that makes my 1.500m plot look like tiny

Do you live in a telephone box?

[Yorick]

So, sold my terraced house in the UK and bought a much bigger detached house on a 5000 sq metre plot in semi rural Spain. Most days I potter around the garden doing whatever needs doing

Kin 'ell, that makes my 1.500m plot look like tiny

Do you live in a telephone box?

I've switched to writing numbers the Spanish way as I've been caught out a few times here. Sorry.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Kin 'ell, that makes my 1.500m plot look like tiny

Do you live in a telephone box?

I've switched to writing numbers the Spanish way as I've been caught out a few times here. Sorry.

I knew what you meant, I just thought it was mildly amusing - I didn't know the Spanish wrote numbers differently

[Yorick]

Do you live in a telephone box?

I've switched to writing numbers the Spanish way as I've been caught out a few times here. Sorry.

I knew what you meant, I just thought it was mildly amusing - I didn't know the Spanish wrote numbers differently

When we were buying the house, our lawyer told us to get several bank cheques, including one for 280.000. He wrote it the Spanish way. So it didn't seem a lot, until the bank checked my request. Gulp.

[Asian Boss]

Interesting thread, although I’m a bit uncomfortable with some of misogynistic comments- guess that’s more typical for this demographic though

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I quite like this; growth vs fixed mindset. The Peter principle is absolutely evident, as is a time-served approach to progression ( you’ve been here for ages Bob, why don’t you go for that promotion..). IME, you should be nurturing a mentality amongst the workforce that they can grow and move into leadership roles - but it needs a lot of investment, usually involves a lot of additional learning.

Not everyone will be cut out for senior roles. If you’re self aware, chances are you’ll know your ceiling. I know mine and have made peace with that. I am able to make inroads in more national leadership roles without being at the very top of my local organisation ( I’m on two national advisory panels-and it’s fun, because you don’t get the local politics).

Anyway, you’ll not get served progression on a plate- so if you want to advance into more senior roles, scope out the role/the requirements and expectations. It’s not just more money and I fact it’s ‘expensive money’ - you’ll get a few quid more for a load more responsibility.

Middle managers are 10 a penny. I quite like the Gallop ‘strengths finder’ approach ) you’ll have to look it up). This is where you assess strengths Of an individual and rather than try and qualify out perceived weakness with training etc- build the team that compliments the strengths of its individuals. I have 15 services in my portfolio and the very worst is the one that’s full of superhero’s who try and solve things as individuals ( fixed mindset). That’s changing, but all cultures need time to turn around.

Bravo. I agree entirely.

Management and indeed effective leadership is best achieved using at least some techniques often derived from formalised learning. This enables the development and perpetuation of high performing teams. Communication and ensuring all individuals have a voice along with clear understanding of measurable targets whilst aligning goals and subgoals with mission statements and corporate values and embedding these early in projects. Above all it's crucial to ensure all team members are fully motivated, enthused and most critically engaged, ensuring a positive work experience for all in which people enjoy and are satisfied by their work and are not merely turning up for the paycheck. This is best achieved using at least some business and people focussed tools.

My personal favorite is Van Achman's Seven Steps to Wheedle Out a Dissenter.

[Docca]

Very good

[DefTrap]

I do a job which ultimately makes people lead better, longer and healthier lives.
But that aspect of it doesn't really bring me much satisfaction