Which motorcycling Jeans?

[Dodgy69]

Another issue with any pants is getting a good fit. We rely on the hip/knee pads to stay in place when being dragged down the road. My knee inserts in my textile pants move about and I wouldn't have much faith in them doing a job in an accident. Leather pants do tend to fit tighter and maybe the denim stuff.

I do think the tighter fit the better, and this stretchy denim with the inserts can fit well. Having said that, not sure we'll be seeing Hickman and co in denim anytime soon, but for us mere mortals, there's a place for them. Think it's a fashion thing.

[Hot_Air]

I get that people don't like the new AAA - C rating system but it is now the norm.

Is it any wonder why many people don't like the new AAA - C rating system? They say it's a rubber stamp system, because the lower ratings are so low. In the UK, I wish we had a decent system like Australia's MotoCAP.

Chatting to people at the London bike show, many talked about the AAA to C ratings as "a joke". They say the A-rating offers negligible protection. With added knee and hip protectors, I've seen ordinary denim jeans labelled as EN 17092 A-rated.

What is worse, some manufacturers are putting a CE label on their garments before they have been tested. They say that it's not breaking the law to put a CE label on clothing if it's been submitted for testing (but before the test result!).

Is it any wonder that many ordinary riders are starting to lose trust in the industry?

Level 1 and 2 will be a thing of the past soon.

That's very sad. Would you know what happens to companies like Hideout and BKS that have certified their leathers to the highest standard? In future, will they be able to test their stuff to the Cambridge high-performance standard? It would be a shame to lose independent testing that distinguishes which garments are top-notch.

[Yorick]

I'd rather crash in the ones that are better than leather


Not every manufacturer test its jeans for abrasion; in fact, by far the majority do not. But a weave like Resurgence’s Pekev records a ’slide’ time of 10.83 seconds. Now that’s impressive, because that’s twice as long as leather. And leather is way over the top for normal road riding. The slide time on leather is normally between 4-5 seconds

The Resurgence Gear jeans and cargo pants both have the PEKEV liner that has now been tested to the EN 13595-2 standard.

The standard calls for a minimum 2 second abrasion resistance and the Resurgence Gear material lasted 23.2 seconds in the test.

UPDATE (November 2014): The Resurgence Gear PEKEV men’s and women’s jeans have now been certified to CE Level 2 standards by SATRA.

Technology moves on, leather hasn't got worse, but man made materials have got better

I don't keep up to date, so obviously things have moved on. You are obviously lots more knowledgeable than me here, so do you ever think the stuff discovered above will ever be allowed on track ?

Just looked at my Dainese leathers and the knee/shin protection is second to none. I can't see denim/jeans having as much protection. And will be hard to keep in place. When we are off-roading, we all use mega knee/shin protection, kept in place with tight straps.

[Yorick]

Why not discuss which pom pom hats give the best protection in a crash ?

I was around the tracks for nigh on 30 years and saw hundreds of crashes. Only leathers will save you in a fast 'off'.

Is it because a " fast off " on a race track bears sod all relation to a typical off on the road.

Most track crashes are below the UK speed limit. I'd call 70 a fast off.

[Hot_Air]

the knee/shin protection ... will be hard to keep in place.

Can reinforced denim – however tough – ever hold knee armour in place securely? Whenever I've chatted with people who repair crashed gear, like Chris Stone or Kate Jennings, they talk about how knee armour often fails to work because it budges in a road accident. It's why the likes of Hideout take so much care when fitting leathers (or Hi-Pro textiles).

[MrLongbeard]

Why not discuss which pom pom hats give the best protection in a crash ?

I was around the tracks for nigh on 30 years and saw hundreds of crashes. Only leathers will save you in a fast 'off'.

Is it because a " fast off " on a race track bears sod all relation to a typical off on the road.

Most track crashes are below the UK speed limit. I'd call 70 a fast off.

It's not all about the speed, on the road you are more likely to meet kerbs, road furniture and cars etc than slide for a long distance.

[Yorick]

Is it because a " fast off " on a race track bears sod all relation to a typical off on the road.

Most track crashes are below the UK speed limit. I'd call 70 a fast off.

It's not all about the speed, on the road you are more likely to meet kerbs, road furniture and cars etc than slide for a long distance.

That's why leathers with better armour.

But I still have no problem riding into town in t-shirt, shorts and sandals.

[Hot_Air]

Make sure you are buying reputable jeans that are certified.

While that's sound advice, it can be hard to follow because some manufacturers use labelling that's baffling. E.g. Dainese clobber often has a cardboard label - not stitched into the garment - that says "CE Cat. II". What does this mean? Is the clothing EN 13595 certified (to Level 1 or 2)? Or should it have an AAA - C rating by now?

[Dodgy69]

Don't know the stats but I wonder how many road bike accidents are 'land and slide' as opposed to 'high impact.' I would imagine in many cases your in the lap of the gods. Having said that, how many of us or mates have sworn their gear helped.

[Bigyin]

Don't know the stats but I wonder how many road bike accidents are 'land and slide' as opposed to 'high impact.' I would imagine in many cases your in the lap of the gods. Having said that, how many of us or mates have sworn their gear helped.

My off a couple of years ago would be classed in this thread as a "fast off" as it was about 70-80 mph (at a guess, possibly higher). It was a thrown high, land heavy and long slide and ended with an impact into the central reservation metal upright. I was lucky in that i didnt hit the upright at the start of the long slide as it would have done more damage than the couple of cracked ribs. I was also lucky that despite lobbing the bike on a dual carriageway i didnt get run over by following traffic which all managed to stop in time.

My jacket and trousers saved my skin quite literally as the hard armour in the elbows and knees where the material wore through stayed in place and despite being heavily scraped stood up to it. The helmet took 3 different hits judging by the marks in differing directions (1 direct heavy hit and 2 bouncing sliding hits) and the boot ankle armour was heavily scraped





The only part i didnt have hard armour in which could have helped was the hips as the soft armour was next to useless in impact absorption. I had no bruising on any of the areas where hard armour took a hit such as elbows, forearms, shoulder, knees, ankles, head and my back. All had damage showing on the clothing, boots and helmet. Soft armour on the other hand ...well you can see



I now use the jacket as a training aid at work to show kids how even proper CE rated bike gear can help/protect them in an off rather than hoodies and tracksuits on a 125

[Yorick]

I'd rather die than see Bigyin's arse again

[Skub]

Fucking spoilers needed.

Do we have spoiler tags?

I wish Yin knew about them.

[Bigyin]

[Couchy]

I’ve got a pair of resurgence jeans with the above mentioned pekev. Apparently it’s very good, the knee armour moves more as the jeans aren’t tight fit. I’ve removed it and when needed I wear separate knee armour that straps to your leg. It’s basically my off road armour.

[G.P]

Thanks for all the input, interesting stuff.
I think I'll wait for the shops to open and try stuff on. FIt is clearly crucial. Also, I'm tempted to get some mesh textile pants for summer touring.

[Supermofo]

Thanks for all the input, interesting stuff.
I think I'll wait for the shops to open and try stuff on. FIt is clearly crucial. Also, I'm tempted to get some mesh textile pants for summer touring.

Don't let the safety lot get started on them! Textile tends to be much less abrasion resistant than even the better lined denims.

FWIW - I do probably 80% of my riding now in Bull-it jeans. They ain't as safe as my leather trousers, but they are more comfy, can be worn for work and I tend to ride in a more relaxed manner when wearing them. So I'd like to think I compensate a bit for the reduction in safety and hopefully less likely to crash. If going for a proper blast I'd wear leathers all over, but I still think you're unlikely to slide far before hitting something on the road and then you're in the lap of the gods.

[G.P]

On the road I use my "Levi's of invincibility" for pleasure riding. For long distance commuting I've got Dainese gortex and Armoured trousers and for track and some winter riding I have 2 piece leathers.
I did a big slide down the A350 in a waxed cotton Belstaff and a pair of jeans many years ago, doing between 70 and 80 mph (woodland creature interface) - I had a small bruise and cut on my knee and a bruise on one hip. The Levis stood up pretty well but they made em thicker in those days!

[Mascagman]

Make sure you are buying reputable jeans that are certified.

While that's sound advice, it can be hard to follow because some manufacturers use labelling that's baffling. E.g. Dainese clobber often has a cardboard label - not stitched into the garment - that says "CE Cat. II". What does this mean? Is the clothing EN 13595 certified (to Level 1 or 2)? Or should it have an AAA - C rating by now?

It is a requirement to sell in the EU to label the product with the standard number and class/level. That is the quickest way to identify uncertified garments. Yes motorcycle clothing is category 2 ppe but the label is a load of guff. A notified body wouldn't sign it off if it didn't meet the requirements and wasn't correct, however they cannot police it afterwards unfortunately, some companies play on this.

If you ever buy a garment and question it, look in the user information. It must state the notified body who certified it or provide a link to their website which will show you their declaration of conformity.

They can be either EN13595 (level 1 or level 2) or EN17092 (class AAA - C). Their ppe product group is category 2 is all.

I know Dainese are reputable, but sometimes you just have to think wtf?

[The Spin Doctor]

Not every manufacturer test its jeans for abrasion; in fact, by far the majority do not.

They ALL have to now, if they are to be considered PPE. That was what I was explaining during the series on CE clothing on my Elevenses webcast.

Technology moves on, leather hasn't got worse, but man made materials have got better

Certainly new materials have been developed.

Unfortunately the new A standard sets the bar so low that the very ordinary 600 dernier nylon can and does pass... and offers as much abrasion resistance as a good quality demin.

[The Spin Doctor]

Don't know the stats but I wonder how many road bike accidents are 'land and slide' as opposed to 'high impact.' I would imagine in many cases your in the lap of the gods. Having said that, how many of us or mates have sworn their gear helped.

Most crashes happen in urban areas and most are minor injury.

Minor injuries are often abrasion.

Serious and fatal nearly always result from impact but you don't need to be travelling quickly to suffer a fatal impact injury - 20 mph can cause fatal internal injury because the internal organs rip away from their blood vessels.