Tyre trackday debates. Mmmm

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Total over simplification but in general I think tyres are like brakes for intermediate riders, they think they need 'more' - my experience of intermediate riders is they slow down too much for the corners and get harder on the throttle/tyre coming out, overloading the tyre and making it slide - ergo giving the message they need 'grippier' tyres, when the best course of action would be to take a little more corner speed.

I do it myself, the tyres behave a lot better when I push harder through the corners. And that's only on a CB500. Lol.

This is probably what I'm doing, I don't think it's the awesome power of my FZR400 that's too much for the tyre

[SSR Suspension]

If a Pro rider can lap a stock bike with stock tyres at almost race pace, I really think modern day tyres are nothing short of spectacular.

Tyre should come down to what you feel works for you, what sits inside your budget and not what the BSB or WSB are currently using or what some vlogger tells you that you should buy

The teams get no choice in tyres in a Pro race series, its all a business venture and Pirelli made a right mess last season with the tyre because it did not work for the bikes. So for 2021 Pirelli are back but being managed by a different team. As for certain vloggers who spend more time crashing than they do on the bike, it does make me laugh why so many people view them as an Authority!

If you really want a good insightful and unbiased opinion n tyres you should check Dave Moss, he has very good relations with Bridgestone and a few other brands.

But in reality most riders, including myself could and would benefit from tuition on how to become more effective and smoother riders out on track, throttle application has a big impact on how the bike reacts both in terms of who it balances the chassis mid corner but also what happens to the carcass. There are many tyre tearing issues that are really nothing to do with suspension, but are heat or throttle related.

[Tricky]

Best way to overtake is more power.

That of course in some ways is true. But that's only if the rider can utilise that increase in power. I don't believe last year I got any quicker as a rider but I was able to pass people more because the XSR is quicker in the right bits than the 690 was.

One thing I'd like to do this year either by hiring or borrowing for a session is putting Mrs Weeksy on a big fast thing and seeing if indeed that's the case for her.
I've done countless laps near/with her so I'd say I know her strengths and weaknesses better than anyone.
Her strengths are corner speed and exit speed. Weaknesses being braking and outright power/ speed. I can close her down in the last 1/4 of a given straight just by staying on the throttle a bit longer and braking later.

But I do wonder whether more horses will just give her a bit of an intimidation factor. That's I guess what we were looking for the 750 to prove/disprove. But that plan has now gone for this year.

And the other side of the coin to the bit I've bolded in above as a potentially useful, but even if not, an interesting exercise both for Ceri and us, is get her on my 390 for a session- Portimao (not that looks too likely at the moment ) definitely wouldn't be the right place even if by some miracle we all make it out there in May , but somewhere she knows, is comfortable with and preferably not a big/fast circuit would be good, and I am sure it would give her a different perspective to her current and past bikes.

Pembrey would be ideal IMO- I think she'd really enjoy it, it's so light and unintimidating relatively speaking, and it can be fun just being able to keep it pinned, not shutting off or feathering the throttle when you might normally, and the little ones change direction so easy , and allow you to brake so late (mainly as you aren't going that fast admittedly )
it'll have nice sticky tyres, shit hot brakes, and a QS too so she won't have to shut off unnecessarily- I am not at all precious about it and wouldn't be in the slightest bit upset if she slipped off it and bent it so she really could push as hard as she wanted to, if she wanted to.

Anyway, maybe something to think about for whenever we manage to get to an appropriate track again

[weeksy]

I'll let you persuade her at Pembrey.... It would be worth it just to see her reaction

[Noggin]

And the other side of the coin to the bit I've bolded in above as a potentially useful, but even if not, an interesting exercise both for Ceri and us, is get her on my 390 for a session- Portimao (not that looks too likely at the moment ) definitely wouldn't be the right place even if by some miracle we all make it out there in May , but somewhere she knows, is comfortable with and preferably not a big/fast circuit would be good, and I am sure it would give her a different perspective to her current and past bikes.

Pembrey would be ideal IMO- I think she'd really enjoy it, it's so light and unintimidating relatively speaking, and it can be fun just being able to keep it pinned, not shutting off or feathering the throttle when you might normally, and the little ones change direction so easy , and allow you to brake so late (mainly as you aren't going that fast admittedly )
it'll have nice sticky tyres, shit hot brakes, and a QS too so she won't have to shut off unnecessarily- I am not at all precious about it and wouldn't be in the slightest bit upset if she slipped off it and bent it so she really could push as hard as she wanted to, if she wanted to.

Anyway, maybe something to think about for whenever we manage to get to an appropriate track again

Definitely this!! I didn't learn the way most of you did, ie, little bikes and build up. I passed my test on a 500, bought a 600 (ZZR) which I rode for six months - then I got a Blackbird that I rode (and tracked a few times) for 8 years.

The 390 was fun on the road but bloody hell it was amazing on track. And that was going from a 390 to a ZX10r on track within a few weeks!

I am totally certain it gave me more understanding and more confidence on the bigger bike!!

[Couchy]

Weeksy, not trying to be sarcastic, but if you take your ‘better can simply be better’ motto to its ultimate conclusion you’d be using Marquez spec slicks/braking set up...and the chance of us mere mortals getting everything ‘up to working temperature’ are pretty slim !?

Well yes, of course there are limits. Some things work better at certain temps and circumstances. Hence kinda why i started the debate in the first place.

Don't forget, this discussion isn't just for me, it's for me, Mrs Weeksy and anyone and everyone else who has thoughts of "should i try...." etc. In this instance it's related to swapping from D213GPs to Conti Slicks for example, but could have easily have been from Diablos to D213GPs and anything and everything in between.

I think you seem to think "he's already made up his mind" however that's far from true. I've got 3 sets of treaded super sticky rubber in the loft waiting to go on the bike, so nothing is decided currently as to what happens then.

There's also thoughts i think that we're looking for an easy way to find speed, that's clearly not true either, she's got a days tuition booked with
https://www.schoolandcollegelistings.co ... evelopment
https://www.facebook.com/nemomoto.rd/

a riding coach. To help improve her weaknesses and potentially improve her skills as a rider too.

But most of all, this thread was here as are most of my threads, to encourage, provoke and instigate discussion on motorbikes

The tuition I’m unsure of, I’ve offered advice on perfect gearing for her bike and it was dismissed as it would make it too revvy, it’s a 600 and if it isn’t revving it’s not getting drive so it would have been instant lap time improvement. Same with comments on using all the track and picking consistent braking markers and no coasting into corners. Also suggested doing a lap in her head to see how close she can get to her real time to see how well she knows the track. All of these things are free to try, I guess if instruction is being paid for it’s more inclined to be listened too ?

[weeksy]

Weeksy, not trying to be sarcastic, but if you take your ‘better can simply be better’ motto to its ultimate conclusion you’d be using Marquez spec slicks/braking set up...and the chance of us mere mortals getting everything ‘up to working temperature’ are pretty slim !?

Well yes, of course there are limits. Some things work better at certain temps and circumstances. Hence kinda why i started the debate in the first place.

Don't forget, this discussion isn't just for me, it's for me, Mrs Weeksy and anyone and everyone else who has thoughts of "should i try...." etc. In this instance it's related to swapping from D213GPs to Conti Slicks for example, but could have easily have been from Diablos to D213GPs and anything and everything in between.

I think you seem to think "he's already made up his mind" however that's far from true. I've got 3 sets of treaded super sticky rubber in the loft waiting to go on the bike, so nothing is decided currently as to what happens then.

There's also thoughts i think that we're looking for an easy way to find speed, that's clearly not true either, she's got a days tuition booked with
https://www.schoolandcollegelistings.co ... evelopment
https://www.facebook.com/nemomoto.rd/

a riding coach. To help improve her weaknesses and potentially improve her skills as a rider too.

But most of all, this thread was here as are most of my threads, to encourage, provoke and instigate discussion on motorbikes

The tuition I’m unsure of, I’ve offered advice on perfect gearing for her bike and it was dismissed as it would make it too revvy, it’s a 600 and if it isn’t revving it’s not getting drive so it would have been instant lap time improvement. Same with comments on using all the track and picking consistent braking markers and no coasting into corners. Also suggested doing a lap in her head to see how close she can get to her real time to see how well she knows the track. All of these things are free to try, I guess if instruction is being paid for it’s more inclined to be listened too ?

Lol who rattled you're cage. The only reason I've not fitted the sprocket is because you've not posted it.

I'm not actually convinced I could do a lap like you ask either. I'm not even sure how it would help either.

[Bigjawa]

I suppose its a moot point. Can you get 'slick construction' with tread? Slicks will be stiffer and strong just to cope with the higher fkrces goes through them, presumably they're built with a super racey profile too.

I remember Dunlop made a tyre with a track profile that got slated on a road test of a 1200 Daytona as being "too pointy" for road riding, I think they said it made the transition from upright to leaned over too quick and felt like falling off a cliff.

I haven't ridden on track for years, but aren't a lot of "road legal" sport tyres practically slicks anyway?

[Scud]

I’m not convinced slicks will make an average inters rider quicker, doubtful they’d do much for an average fast group rider in reality.
Modern tyres are so much more capable than the rider using them.
Sylvan Guintoli did a thing a while back on a big standard gsxr1000, rode to trackdays and used the bike as it stood, on the fourth one, still with the same set of road tyres, he was quick enough to be on the bsb grid, says a lot about the bike and tyres.
Even a bog standard cbr6 with road tyres offers more performance than most riders will ever get near using.

[Couchy]

Well yes, of course there are limits. Some things work better at certain temps and circumstances. Hence kinda why i started the debate in the first place.

Don't forget, this discussion isn't just for me, it's for me, Mrs Weeksy and anyone and everyone else who has thoughts of "should i try...." etc. In this instance it's related to swapping from D213GPs to Conti Slicks for example, but could have easily have been from Diablos to D213GPs and anything and everything in between.

I think you seem to think "he's already made up his mind" however that's far from true. I've got 3 sets of treaded super sticky rubber in the loft waiting to go on the bike, so nothing is decided currently as to what happens then.

There's also thoughts i think that we're looking for an easy way to find speed, that's clearly not true either, she's got a days tuition booked with
https://www.schoolandcollegelistings.co ... evelopment
https://www.facebook.com/nemomoto.rd/

a riding coach. To help improve her weaknesses and potentially improve her skills as a rider too.

But most of all, this thread was here as are most of my threads, to encourage, provoke and instigate discussion on motorbikes

The tuition I’m unsure of, I’ve offered advice on perfect gearing for her bike and it was dismissed as it would make it too revvy, it’s a 600 and if it isn’t revving it’s not getting drive so it would have been instant lap time improvement. Same with comments on using all the track and picking consistent braking markers and no coasting into corners. Also suggested doing a lap in her head to see how close she can get to her real time to see how well she knows the track. All of these things are free to try, I guess if instruction is being paid for it’s more inclined to be listened too ?

Lol who rattled you're cage. The only reason I've not fitted the sprocket is because you've not posted it.

I'm not actually convinced I could do a lap like you ask either. I'm not even sure how it would help either.

Lol, it would help as it gives more acceleration and therefore a better lap time for no more effort from the rider

[scottyuk]

Some trackday slicks are just the same compound as cut tyres. Unless you need the sipes to get the rubber moving around to generate the heat then the slick should be of benefit for grip and potentially last longer. I don't think you can just say slicks are this or the other. Slicks vary a lot.