What 4x4 For 4K

[gremlin]

Those that enjoy a manual box simply enjoy an old fashioned form of driving!

String-back driving gloves.


Oh, yeaaaaah.


(And don't get me started on Aga ovens.....)

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Sequential Manual Gearboxes are the best

[Horse]

I can never figure out why, in a world where cars are fitted with automatic seats, automatic lights, automatic dipping rear-view mirror, automatic windscreen wipers and probably automatic arse hair trimmers, which people spend thousands ensuring their cars have, to make their lives just a fraction more convenient, there is an attachment to a third pedal and manual stick for changing gear ratios...

My car has an electric handbrake. I thought that I would hate it, bit it's actually really easy to use, one less thing to do at busy junctions.

Except, at busy junctions (and possibly other times and places) where you might want to pull away briskly. At which point you find it only has one speed to release.

[To be fair, there is a manual override]

[Noggin]

A DSG box is far superior to a manual box. Changing down or up, either by gear lever or paddles, is far quicker and more efficient. Changing gear in a manual box has a longer gap in powered drive and unloads/loads the suspension accordingly, not a good thing when hurtling through bends. Those that enjoy a manual box simply enjoy an old fashioned form of driving!

YAY

Those that enjoy a manual box simply enjoy an old fashioned form of driving!

String-back driving gloves.


Oh, yeaaaaah.


(And don't get me started on Aga ovens.....)

But I'm definitely younger than Taipan - no string backed gloves here

[gremlin]

when hurtling through bends.

Genuine question: when do you 'hurtle through a bend'?

[Noggin]

when hurtling through bends.

Genuine question: when do you 'hurtle through a bend'?

When said bend has low/no hedges and good visibility

[gremlin]

when hurtling through bends.

Genuine question: when do you 'hurtle through a bend'?

When said bend has low/no hedges and good visibility

Tiepin lives (IIRC) in Essex. I live over the water in Kent. I'm guessing that, like Kent, Essex is fairly suburban. Granted, I can head out 20 minutes and find some country lanes with no footpaths, but, they tend to be bordered by hedgerows and visibility is near non-existent. You can hoon it, but you won't see the horse, tractor, on-coming bicycle or car until it's too late, so you quickly learn to slow down, sound the horn, proceed with caution. And then you're on the next bend so if you've floored it, you have to brake hard, then more of the same because this bend is the same as the last bend, ad-infinitum. There is a reason why neither Kent nor Essex is twinned with the Stelvio pass.
This is before you factor in the Plod with their mobile cameras, etc.

Maybe I'm old and fucking dull, but I really can't be bothered.

[Noggin]

Genuine question: when do you 'hurtle through a bend'?

When said bend has low/no hedges and good visibility

Tiepin lives (IIRC) in Essex. I live over the water in Kent. I'm guessing that, like Kent, Essex is fairly suburban. Granted, I can head out 20 minutes and find some country lanes with no footpaths, but, they tend to be bordered by hedgerows and visibility is near non-existent. You can hoon it, but you won't see the horse, tractor, on-coming bicycle or car until it's too late, so you quickly learn to slow down, sound the horn, proceed with caution. And then you're on the next bend so if you've floored it, you have to brake hard, then more of the same because this bend is the same as the last bend, ad-infinitum. There is a reason why neither Kent nor Essex is twinned with the Stelvio pass.

This is before you factor in the Plod with their mobile cameras, etc.,

Ah, well, I didn't know where you guys are and what it's like there. But, I learnt to drive in the West Country and whilst lots (most) was as you describe, we could always find a place to go hurtle (night was better, assuming the other cars used lights!! and there were no livestock in the road!! LOL )

[Taipan]

when hurtling through bends.

Genuine question: when do you 'hurtle through a bend'?

I don't, my 50 pencing of corners is legendary! I was referring to people who do, be those bends on a track or some amazing B-roads somewhere? A dsg type box is better everywhere. Go into any supercar showroom and manual boxes will be very rare to find as it's old hat technology. I don't think MCLaren have even offered a manual as an option?

[Bigyin]

I can never figure out why, in a world where cars are fitted with automatic seats, automatic lights, automatic dipping rear-view mirror, automatic windscreen wipers and probably automatic arse hair trimmers, which people spend thousands ensuring their cars have, to make their lives just a fraction more convenient, there is an attachment to a third pedal and manual stick for changing gear ratios.....

I would never consider buying a car with a manual box. The faff of changing gear seems a little quaint and old-fashioned to me and ever so slightly pointless, when modern auto boxes do the job so very well.

The wife’s Range Rover has auto dipping lights and I hate them as they react either too early or too late for when I want them to switch . The same goes for auto gearboxes as in a manual you brake, set the speed and correct gear for the corner then drive it through. The auto you brake and get the speed then the engine has a little think and generally changes the gear normally at the wrong point which unsettles the suspension of the car .

For driving in that London yes an auto wins every day, for where I live it’s all about enjoying driving my cars, not just sitting in it to get to somewhere

[weeksy]

I can never figure out why, in a world where cars are fitted with automatic seats, automatic lights, automatic dipping rear-view mirror, automatic windscreen wipers and probably automatic arse hair trimmers, which people spend thousands ensuring their cars have, to make their lives just a fraction more convenient, there is an attachment to a third pedal and manual stick for changing gear ratios.....

I would never consider buying a car with a manual box. The faff of changing gear seems a little quaint and old-fashioned to me and ever so slightly pointless, when modern auto boxes do the job so very well.

The wife’s Range Rover has auto dipping lights and I hate them as they react either too early or too late for when I want them to switch . The same goes for auto gearboxes as in a manual you brake, set the speed and correct gear for the corner then drive it through. The auto you brake and get the speed then the engine has a little think and generally changes the gear normally at the wrong point which unsettles the suspension of the car .

For driving in that London yes an auto wins every day, for where I live it’s all about enjoying driving my cars, not just sitting in it to get to somewhere

I have a manual, but I don't understand driving as something for pleasure. Not even slightly.

[Bigyin]

I have a manual, but I don't understand driving as something for pleasure. Not even slightly.

I understand that completely and I know a lot of people who say that but each to their own. Think of a fast ride on your bike on a twisty back road. I enjoy that in 4 wheels as well as on 2 and am probably better on 4 than 2 as well

[weeksy]

am probably better on 4 than 2 as well

fuck me dude, that's not a big ask

[Mussels]

I don't, my 50 pencing of corners is legendary! I was referring to people who do, be those bends on a track or some amazing B-roads somewhere? A dsg type box is better everywhere. Go into any supercar showroom and manual boxes will be very rare to find as it's old hat technology. I don't think MCLaren have even offered a manual as an option?

IIRC dual clutch autos had huge problems when they came out especially with more powerful engines, putting dry clutches in them was a bad mistake as people drove them like a slushbox and burnt the clutches, bigger engines just burnt the clutches whatever.
Wet clutches work much better but mean they get 0.001mpg less and sales guys don't like that so many stuck with dry clutches.

They may have improved recently but I don't trust them yet, manufacturers seem happy to roll out poorly designed tech if it looks good in marketing stuff.

Apart from that all autos are undesirable in corners, changing gear mid corner is going to throw the car off balance and if you are driving quickly you really don't want that to happen. Manual override helps that but there are still cars around with manual override that still gets overridden by the computer.

[Bigyin]

am probably better on 4 than 2 as well

fuck me dude, that's not a big ask

Bastard

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

I don't, my 50 pencing of corners is legendary! I was referring to people who do, be those bends on a track or some amazing B-roads somewhere? A dsg type box is better everywhere. Go into any supercar showroom and manual boxes will be very rare to find as it's old hat technology. I don't think MCLaren have even offered a manual as an option?

IIRC dual clutch autos had huge problems when they came out especially with more powerful engines, putting dry clutches in them was a bad mistake as people drove them like a slushbox and burnt the clutches, bigger engines just burnt the clutches whatever.
Wet clutches work much better but mean they get 0.001mpg less and sales guys don't like that so many stuck with dry clutches.

They may have improved recently but I don't trust them yet, manufacturers seem happy to roll out poorly designed tech if it looks good in marketing stuff.

Apart from that all autos are undesirable in corners, changing gear mid corner is going to throw the car off balance and if you are driving quickly you really don't want that to happen. Manual override helps that but there are still cars around with manual override that still gets overridden by the computer.

Aren't they nearly all made by the same company (Gertrag) certainly Mitsubishi and VW/Audi use the same flappy paddle gearboxes - Mitsubishi Evos over 300bhp have manual boxes because the TCTS wasn't strong enough.

[lostboy]

I can never figure out why, in a world where cars are fitted with automatic seats, automatic lights, automatic dipping rear-view mirror, automatic windscreen wipers and probably automatic arse hair trimmers, which people spend thousands ensuring their cars have, to make their lives just a fraction more convenient, there is an attachment to a third pedal and manual stick for changing gear ratios.....

I would never consider buying a car with a manual box. The faff of changing gear seems a little quaint and old-fashioned to me and ever so slightly pointless, when modern auto boxes do the job so very well.

The wife’s Range Rover has auto dipping lights and I hate them as they react either too early or too late for when I want them to switch . The same goes for auto gearboxes as in a manual you brake, set the speed and correct gear for the corner then drive it through. The auto you brake and get the speed then the engine has a little think and generally changes the gear normally at the wrong point which unsettles the suspension of the car .

For driving in that London yes an auto wins every day, for where I live it’s all about enjoying driving my cars, not just sitting in it to get to somewhere

That's why the DSG is the winner. My R is an auto "slush box" for crawling around and a flappy paddle manual when I want to rip a few B roads.

[Yorick]

In my v6 Audi TT the DSG gearbox was great fun and problem free.

Sports mode was great fun. Spesh in 4WD mode .
TLGP winner every time

[Bigyin]

That's why the DSG is the winner. My R is an auto "slush box" for crawling around and a flappy paddle manual when I want to rip a few B roads.

My daughter has a Scirroco R and have only used the flappy paddle on that very gently as she has only had it a while and didnt want to abuse her new car. It seemed quite good and responsive to quick changes. My mate has an Evo 10 with a flappy paddle box and a heavily breathed on motor but is scared of its performance and for quite a while he kept asking me to drive it to see what it could do as he was too nervous to push it as he isnt really a driver but always wanted that car for its looks etc.

I found the downchanges while braking hard for a corner were pretty sluggish to the extent i backed off as it really didnt feel right. I suggested he have it looked at and a specialist found a variety of problems with the gearbox that his gentle driving didnt flag up. He now has it sorted but i havent driven it again yet due to lockdowns etc despite him asking me to give it a blast

For me, i like the old manual for the control rather than an auto but i need more time with flappy paddle cars to get used to them and use them properly

[Horse]

Apart from that all autos are undesirable in corners, changing gear mid corner is going to throw the car off balance and if you are driving quickly you really don't want that to happen. Manual override helps that but there are still cars around with manual override that still gets overridden by the computer.

I was reading about a technique to overcome some of these issues. It was something about using the throttle before the bend to fool the box into changing down then maintaining that gear through and out. But although I was reading in it, I wasn't remembering.