E-bike motors and the arms race of power !!

[Mr Moofo]

Blimey, if you visit the Trek Facebook sites, the amount of whinging going on about the increases in power and assitance etc that Bosch are rolling out and why they aren't getting it first is quite eye opening. I like to use the motor to go up hills and the boring bits. The other bits are more fun

[weeksy]

Blimey, if you visit the Trek Facebook sites, the amount of whinging going on about the increases in power and assitance etc that Bosch are rolling out and why they aren't getting it first is quite eye opening. I like to use the motor to go up hills and the boring bits. The other bits are more fun

It's just society at the moment in MTB, there's just a massive rush of people who want more more more power power power. The actual bike and the riding is secondary

[Mr Moofo]

Blimey, if you visit the Trek Facebook sites, the amount of whinging going on about the increases in power and assitance etc that Bosch are rolling out and why they aren't getting it first is quite eye opening. I like to use the motor to go up hills and the boring bits. The other bits are more fun

It's just society at the moment in MTB, there's just a massive rush of people who want more more more power power power. The actual bike and the riding is secondary

That'll never happen in motorcycling

[weeksy]

Blimey, if you visit the Trek Facebook sites, the amount of whinging going on about the increases in power and assitance etc that Bosch are rolling out and why they aren't getting it first is quite eye opening. I like to use the motor to go up hills and the boring bits. The other bits are more fun

It's just society at the moment in MTB, there's just a massive rush of people who want more more more power power power. The actual bike and the riding is secondary

That'll never happen in motorcycling

It is slightly different in motorbikes though generally, things like the R1, BMW S1000RR, V4 Panigale etc are all awesome machines in their own right. Things like the Amflow are like putting a 200bhp engine in a Kia Ceed

[Mr Moofo]

It's just society at the moment in MTB, there's just a massive rush of people who want more more more power power power. The actual bike and the riding is secondary

That'll never happen in motorcycling

It is slightly different in motorbikes though generally, things like the R1, BMW S1000RR, V4 Panigale etc are all awesome machines in their own right. Things like the Amflow are like putting a 200bhp engine in a Kia Ceed

I have heard similar analogies from other sources - but folks want more power ...

Fuck knows why.
Unless you live in Morzine and don't want to pay for an uplift

[mboy]

I have heard similar analogies from other sources - but folks want more power ...

Fuck knows why.
Unless you live in Morzine and don't want to pay for an uplift

Marketing... Pure and simple!

The people that are susceptible to it aren't those that have been partaking in whichever hobby/pastime/sport for decades already... The ones that are continually seduced by MOARRR POWAAAHHHHH are those that have relatively recently come over to it from doing something else, and in 3-5yrs time they'll be doing something else entirely yet again... As someone with (pretty chronic it turns out) ADHD, it's a particularly ADHD buying habit (which I don't exhibit when it comes to bikes or motorbikes, because they are my absolute life blood and the passion runs way, way deeper than the superficial) being exhibited by those who are continually prepared to buy the latest and greatest product that pushes the boundaries constantly...

Going back to the motorbike analogy... Do I like powerful bikes? Yes, absolutely... Do I need 200bhp on a motorbike on the road...? Christ no, it's absolutely pointless! I own a bike with 160bhp and that feels faintly ludicrous at times, another with 120bhp and that feels more than enough most of the time. But the market has decided that anything sub 200bhp just isn't enough to impress your mates any more... The guys that ride these 200bhp+ bikes on the road generally weren't riding motorbikes at all 5yrs ago, and in 5yrs time they'll have forgotten what motorbikes were whilst they're busy playing 72 holes of golf every week, 52 weeks a year... True life long passionate riders will know and understand what works for them... Jonny come lately's will be in the constant pursuit of the biggest/best/most powerful until they achieve it, and then start to lose all interest as the pursuit of the holy grail was what drove them, not the actual enjoyment of the hobby in the first place... And it usually ends up back on a Golf course in the end! Which is where most of the current eMTBer's will be in a few years too...

Anyway... Got a Tour+ setting on my Crafty that for me, is goldilocks pretty much all the time... Set at 70Nm and 450W peak, it gives something in the region of 200-250% assist at most, and is insanely efficient compared to running even 85Nm/600W or 100Nm/750W (let alone the new 120Nm update!)... My recent rides have been in the region of 18-22 miles with 4000-4500ft of climbing, and I've been coming home having used only 50% of an 800Wh battery in said setting! The same rides would use 75-85% battery in higher output settings... It's a perfect combination of providing "enough" assistance to make riding an eBike worthwhile, without providing too much that it gets silly, and it means should I be inclined, an all day epic 40 miler with 8000ft of climbing is on the cards... The "Moaarrrr Powaaaah" brigade...? They'll all have run out of battery before I've even stopped for lunch!

[weeksy]

The "Moaarrrr Powaaaah" brigade...? They'll all have run out of battery before I've even stopped for lunch!

That's why the bikes that allow battery swaps are getting more and more popular now, all the locals here have 2 batteries and fly round, then lunch, battery swap and fly round again.

Now that more companies are doing quick chargers, that's again another one where something like a Jackery that can put in 50% in an hour or so, well that's a no brainer. Stop for lunch, take 90 mins and you've got 65% to go nail it again.

I get it, i really do....but i'm still resisting.

[mboy]

The "Moaarrrr Powaaaah" brigade...? They'll all have run out of battery before I've even stopped for lunch!

That's why the bikes that allow battery swaps are getting more and more popular now, all the locals here have 2 batteries and fly round, then lunch, battery swap and fly round again.

Now that more companies are doing quick chargers, that's again another one where something like a Jackery that can put in 50% in an hour or so, well that's a no brainer. Stop for lunch, take 90 mins and you've got 65% to go nail it again.

I get it, i really do....but i'm still resisting.

Yeah but you'll still be riding in 5yrs time though... As will I...

I haven't successfully managed to drain an 800Wh battery yet, at least not before I was too drained to carry on myself... OK so I could do easily if I just went out in Turbo, but I don't like the way the bikes feel with that much power an torque... eMTB is set to 85Nm and 600W on my bike and that's absolutely as much as I like to use, and even then, only for the short sharp climbs to punch up them quickly. For everything else, it's Tour+ which is set at 70Nm/450W which gives a very nice balance where I know and feel it's an eMTB, but the power and torque isn't overwhelming...

[weeksy]

Ill certainly be trying to

[Couchy]

I have heard similar analogies from other sources - but folks want more power ...

Fuck knows why.
Unless you live in Morzine and don't want to pay for an uplift

Marketing... Pure and simple!

The people that are susceptible to it aren't those that have been partaking in whichever hobby/pastime/sport for decades already... The ones that are continually seduced by MOARRR POWAAAHHHHH are those that have relatively recently come over to it from doing something else, and in 3-5yrs time they'll be doing something else entirely yet again... As someone with (pretty chronic it turns out) ADHD, it's a particularly ADHD buying habit (which I don't exhibit when it comes to bikes or motorbikes, because they are my absolute life blood and the passion runs way, way deeper than the superficial) being exhibited by those who are continually prepared to buy the latest and greatest product that pushes the boundaries constantly...

Going back to the motorbike analogy... Do I like powerful bikes? Yes, absolutely... Do I need 200bhp on a motorbike on the road...? Christ no, it's absolutely pointless! I own a bike with 160bhp and that feels faintly ludicrous at times, another with 120bhp and that feels more than enough most of the time. But the market has decided that anything sub 200bhp just isn't enough to impress your mates any more... The guys that ride these 200bhp+ bikes on the road generally weren't riding motorbikes at all 5yrs ago, and in 5yrs time they'll have forgotten what motorbikes were whilst they're busy playing 72 holes of golf every week, 52 weeks a year... True life long passionate riders will know and understand what works for them... Jonny come lately's will be in the constant pursuit of the biggest/best/most powerful until they achieve it, and then start to lose all interest as the pursuit of the holy grail was what drove them, not the actual enjoyment of the hobby in the first place... And it usually ends up back on a Golf course in the end! Which is where most of the current eMTBer's will be in a few years too...

Anyway... Got a Tour+ setting on my Crafty that for me, is goldilocks pretty much all the time... Set at 70Nm and 450W peak, it gives something in the region of 200-250% assist at most, and is insanely efficient compared to running even 85Nm/600W or 100Nm/750W (let alone the new 120Nm update!)... My recent rides have been in the region of 18-22 miles with 4000-4500ft of climbing, and I've been coming home having used only 50% of an 800Wh battery in said setting! The same rides would use 75-85% battery in higher output settings... It's a perfect combination of providing "enough" assistance to make riding an eBike worthwhile, without providing too much that it gets silly, and it means should I be inclined, an all day epic 40 miler with 8000ft of climbing is on the cards... The "Moaarrrr Powaaaah" brigade...? They'll all have run out of battery before I've even stopped for lunch!

Lol, yeah all those 200hp bikes are ridden by new riders, what a dumb statement almost matched by the ebike statement.

[formula400]

It's just society at the moment in MTB, there's just a massive rush of people who want more more more power power power. The actual bike and the riding is secondary

That'll never happen in motorcycling

It is slightly different in motorbikes though generally, things like the R1, BMW S1000RR, V4 Panigale etc are all awesome machines in their own right. Things like the Amflow are like putting a 200bhp engine in a Kia Ceed

And what’s wrong with that….. bloody love the ceed

[Couchy]

Nobody needs 1500w and 130nm torque ffs……oh

[weeksy]

Nobody needs 1500w and 130nm torque ffs……oh

That looks a VERY high front end?

[Couchy]

Nobody needs 1500w and 130nm torque ffs……oh

That looks a VERY high front end?

It’s not on the flat

[formula400]

There seems to be a million new bikes coming with the M2 motor, the people have spoken,

No one needs anything……. But we all want more….

[Couchy]

First proper ride today and a load of PB at local place. Ignoring the power it’s the delivery that is superb. Very natural feeling and nothing like my old Bosch motor. On the climbs I used full power but everywhere else I dropped it a level and made the delivery less instant, still 1000w but that’s more manageable than the 1300w or 1500w with boost. In full power when pedalling hard it takes nothing to send the front up pretty quickly.
I can’t see me using full power a lot as it’s not needed but a slightly tamer delivery is great fun, it also gives a lot more battery life using less

[formula400]

@Couchey what are you riding?

[Couchy]

It’s a Megamo reason

[mboy]

Did the "Batch Burner" XC endurance event on my eBike yesterday... 55km, 1700m of climbing... It's not a race, but I was pushing myself for a good time (finished just sub 3hrs)... Anyway...

eBikes... They're for lazy people still, right...?

[Couchy]

Only lazy if you want them to be as we all know

Had a good few rides on the avinox bike now, settled on a lower power setting of ‘only’ 1000w but with instant reaction to pedal movement and no run on when stopping pedalling. The top setting of 1300w with 1500w is too much apart from the steepest simple climbs. I ride the same place with the lads each week and end of the day we’re always top 10 on the great strava, this week I was 1st in loads of sections just by getting a bike with more power, all the others also on avinox bikes but running full power. Having tried it I was going slower as the speed picked up too quick on twisty trails. Never thought I’d say that about a bike. As I’ve said above the power delivery is superb and natural and the lighter weight of this bike helps it ride great