Do you never get back to the pits after a session and think through what you did, what you might do differently next time?
When you're about to change an exhaust on the bike, do you not think through how you will do it, what tools, how long it will take, etc.?
Wherever you are now, think about what you would have to do to get a beer, pop the top off the bottle (Where's the opener, what noise will it make, where will the loose top go) and pour it into a clean glass (which cupboard did you get it from, where's the handle, which shelf, how will you pour to avoid froth?).
Now think about being on an empty track. Sod the markers, sort them when you know how much space you need. Imagine a corner you know well. You're riding comfortably within your limits, you have time to spare. Now mentally work through the actions. Get them smooth in your mind. Then perch on the edge of a chair and physically go through them.
When you're on track you don't have to be better than other riders, you have to be better than you were the previous lap.
I think we agree on most of that but the better each lap bit, if that was possible then after a Trackday we’d be on lap record pace just by going better each lap. I can put in dozens of laps on the same pace and exact same bit of tarmac. If all it took was to be better on the next lap I’d go quicker. In the past I’ve had instruction and they’ve all said the riding and technique are fine now just go quicker .
There has to be a limit built in where going better just isn’t possible.
However it does apply to cack handed riders who don’t blip
Couchy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:23 pm
... but the better each lap bit, if that was possible then after a Trackday we’d be on lap record pace just by going better each lap.
... now just go quicker
Agreed, it was in the context of planning to pass the rider ahead.
However, the 'just go faster' philosophy is the way, sadly, some trainers work
Couchy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:23 pm
However it does apply to cack handed riders who don’t blip
So serious q....what do you do if you're not blipping?
In my head, if I didn't blip I'd just let the clutch out and the revs would jump up anyway and the rear wheel would get upset? I remember when I first learned to use a clutch I struggled with changing down without putting myself over the handlebars.
So do you feather the clutch out slowly, change down later than me or what? I tend to change down quite 'early' I guess you'd say and I'm quick on the clutch lever....if I use the clutch at all. I certainly don't pull it all the way, the only time I ever do that is when I'm stopped.
I can't picture in my head how you'd do otherwise, but clearly you can.
Mr. Dazzle wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:59 pm
So serious q....what do you do if you're not blipping?
In my head, if I didn't blip I'd just let the clutch out and the revs would jump up anyway and the rear wheel would get upset? I remember when I first learned to use a clutch I struggled with changing down without putting myself over the handlebars.
So do you feather the clutch out slowly, change down later than me or what? I tend to change down quite 'early' I guess you'd say and I'm quick on the clutch lever....if I use the clutch at all. I certainly don't pull it all the way, the only time I ever do that is when I'm stopped.
I can't picture in my head how you'd do otherwise, but clearly you can.
Watch my video above. I created it to show folk the controls.
weeksy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:49 pm
Front judder. I don't give it 100% I give it about 80% I reckon. But I go from throttle to brakes, I don't ease, then more.
The main thing I noticed was when I blipped I could stop it, if I didn't blip, I got the abs kicking in. Maybe the blipping in itself changes how I was changing down in terms of speed of changes, which settled it. I honestly don't really have the answer. All I know is, it was only at Pembrey and into the hairpin.
I'd argue, at Silverstone into the chicane on the GP or even into the left hander after the 2nd pit straight I braked harder than I was at Pembrey, which is why I'm a little confused.
I of course can't say for certain as I haven't ridden the XSR on track, but going from the brief road rode I had on it and knowing a bit about how you ride on track, I suspect it's more than likely that what you were feeling / the issue you had was the forks bottoming out- sort that, and I will eat my pants if you still have an issue with the ABS
weeksy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:49 pm
Front judder. I don't give it 100% I give it about 80% I reckon. But I go from throttle to brakes, I don't ease, then more.
The main thing I noticed was when I blipped I could stop it, if I didn't blip, I got the abs kicking in. Maybe the blipping in itself changes how I was changing down in terms of speed of changes, which settled it. I honestly don't really have the answer. All I know is, it was only at Pembrey and into the hairpin.
I'd argue, at Silverstone into the chicane on the GP or even into the left hander after the 2nd pit straight I braked harder than I was at Pembrey, which is why I'm a little confused.
I of course can't say for certain as I haven't ridden the XSR on track, but going from the brief road rode I had on it and knowing a bit about how you ride on track, I suspect it's more than likely that what you were feeling / the issue you had was the forks bottoming out- sort that, and I will eat my pants if you still have an issue with the ABS
I guess we'll find out the answer more to that now the front end has been done.
I'll certainly be sending you out on it at track though.
weeksy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:49 pm
Front judder. I don't give it 100% I give it about 80% I reckon. But I go from throttle to brakes, I don't ease, then more.
The main thing I noticed was when I blipped I could stop it, if I didn't blip, I got the abs kicking in. Maybe the blipping in itself changes how I was changing down in terms of speed of changes, which settled it. I honestly don't really have the answer. All I know is, it was only at Pembrey and into the hairpin.
I'd argue, at Silverstone into the chicane on the GP or even into the left hander after the 2nd pit straight I braked harder than I was at Pembrey, which is why I'm a little confused.
I of course can't say for certain as I haven't ridden the XSR on track, but going from the brief road rode I had on it and knowing a bit about how you ride on track, I suspect it's more than likely that what you were feeling / the issue you had was the forks bottoming out- sort that, and I will eat my pants if you still have an issue with the ABS
I guess we'll find out the answer more to that now the front end has been done.
I'll certainly be sending you out on it at track though.
And you will of course be very welcome to give the RC a decent thrashing- I can guarantee you won't see any ABS issue on it as the pump etc has been completely removed and MCs are now directly connected - the system on the 390s really is quite a primitive one and I used to have it cutting in regularly in the dry on my old 390 on the road once Id got decent pads and sticky tyres on that.
( forks are currently completely standard and unadjustable though, they need work before May )
I of course can't say for certain as I haven't ridden the XSR on track, but going from the brief road rode I had on it and knowing a bit about how you ride on track, I suspect it's more than likely that what you were feeling / the issue you had was the forks bottoming out- sort that, and I will eat my pants if you still have an issue with the ABS
I guess we'll find out the answer more to that now the front end has been done.
I'll certainly be sending you out on it at track though.
And you will of course be very welcome to give the RC a decent thrashing- I can guarantee you won't see any ABS issue on it as the pump etc has been completely removed and MCs are now directly connected - the system on the 390s really is quite a primitive one and I used to have it cutting in regularly in the dry on my old 390 on the road once Id got decent pads and sticky tyres on that.
( forks are currently completely standard and unadjustable though, they need work before May )
That'll depend on groups, I'm not sure if want to do a 390 in Inters. Unless very late in afternoon. I can't do it justice in the corner and it won't do me favours on straight
I'll send you out on the xsr, let me know how it goes for you
I'll help if I can
And if you watch this vid from 2007, you'll see I didn't blip at all. I only watched a few laps just now, so may have missed one. But you get the point.
That’s not 2007 as you’ve got Showa big piston forks and they didn’t come out till 2012, also that bike has a slipper clutch as standard making the downshifts very nice even without blipping. You’ve got forgetful in old age
Excellent detective work, but it's also got the date in the bottom right...
Anyhoo - I watched the vid I'm not much the wiser. It sounds like you just change down and forget about it? If I tried that I'd be jerking over the handlebars I reckon.
I'll send you out on the xsr, let me know how it goes for you
I'll help if I can
And if you watch this vid from 2007, you'll see I didn't blip at all. I only watched a few laps just now, so may have missed one. But you get the point.
That’s not 2007 as you’ve got Showa big piston forks and they didn’t come out till 2012, also that bike has a slipper clutch as standard making the downshifts very nice even without blipping. You’ve got forgetful in old age
Mr. Dazzle wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 7:40 pm
Excellent detective work, but it's also got the date in the bottom right...
Anyhoo - I watched the vid I'm not much the wiser. It sounds like you just change down and forget about it? If I tried that I'd be jerking over the handlebars I reckon.
If you just let the clutch lever go then yeah it’ll be rubbish and upset the bike, if you let it go progressively and also slip it a little it’ll work like a slipper clutch, tbh this is what we did before slipper clutches. Looks to me like Yorick is letting it go but only enough to match engine revs before he finally lets it go. I just don’t know why folk don’t learn to blip it’s one of the most satisfying bike skills
Mr. Dazzle wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 7:40 pm
Excellent detective work, but it's also got the date in the bottom right...
Anyhoo - I watched the vid I'm not much the wiser. It sounds like you just change down and forget about it? If I tried that I'd be jerking over the handlebars I reckon.
If you just let the clutch lever go then yeah it’ll be rubbish and upset the bike, if you let it go progressively and also slip it a little it’ll work like a slipper clutch, tbh this is what we did before slipper clutches. Looks to me like Yorick is letting it go but only enough to match engine revs before he finally lets it go. I just don’t know why folk don’t learn to blip it’s one of the most satisfying bike skills
I did it when racing 2 strokes. As well as matching engine and gearbox speed, it gave a quick squirt of oil into engine.
New bikes now don't need it.
On the tracer, abs kicks in on the front, when upright and hard braking, no back brake applied. So would presume wheel speed is lined up. I understand the benifits of cornering abs, stop you loosing it but when upright and straight, it ain't required, unless maybe on shitty public roads. It actually distracts your attention from making a good corner. Maybe the Yamahas are set at the sensitive end.
I've only ever had the ABS kick in twice on my road bikes (never ridden a bike on track with ABS).
The idea of ABS on a car isn't to reduce braking distance, but to allow the driver to still steer the car, rather than sliding into a deer (if I remember the 80's TV advert correctly).
Should it be the same theory on a bike, to allow you to still steer while using maximum braking force?
Mr. Dazzle wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 7:40 pm
Excellent detective work, but it's also got the date in the bottom right...
Anyhoo - I watched the vid I'm not much the wiser. It sounds like you just change down and forget about it? If I tried that I'd be jerking over the handlebars I reckon.
If you just let the clutch lever go then yeah it’ll be rubbish and upset the bike, if you let it go progressively and also slip it a little it’ll work like a slipper clutch, tbh this is what we did before slipper clutches. Looks to me like Yorick is letting it go but only enough to match engine revs before he finally lets it go. I just don’t know why folk don’t learn to blip it’s one of the most satisfying bike skills
Sounds a bit like 6 of one really...I can be more ham fisted on the clutch cause I'm finer on the throttle.
On the road I don't use the clutch very much at all. Quite often I don't use the brakes either when communting. Going across all the roundabouts at MK at a fairly sedate pace doesn't need the brakes for example.
Edit: I do it by default in the car too, I'd have to make a conscious effort not to. Mrs Ds old Civic could even do clutches shifts
KungFooBob wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:50 pm
The idea of ABS on a car isn't to reduce braking distance, but to allow the driver to still steer the car, rather than sliding into a deer (if I remember the 80's TV advert correctly).
The idea is to prevent lock up..."Anti Lock" Brake System.
You're quite right though, the major advantage is that you can turn and brake at the same time. If you're right on the verge of locking then adding any steering input will make you lock. A good driver will ease off the brake as they turn - which is exactly what racers do - but if you're suddenly surprised by a deer then you might not think so clearly.
The thing is, with modern tyre sizes and compounds and with better suspension most people don't brake as hard as is possible! Lots of cars have EBA now, emergency brake assist. That system detects when you've suddenly jumped on the pedal and brakes as hard as it can, regardless of what the driver is doing. Cars can generally stop ALOT harder than you think they can.
.
. 
I understand the benifits of cornering abs, stop you loosing it but when upright and straight, it ain't required, unless maybe on shitty public roads. It actually distracts your attention from making a good corner. Maybe the Yamahas are set at the sensitive end.