Scott Mills and 'the celebrity factor' WTF

[Noggin]

So men can’t be sexually abused?

I'm sure there's examples of sexual abuse on men.

In minute proportion to the other way round though. And your example was spectacularly trivial, hence why I assumed it was April fools humblebrag nonsense.

It may sound trivial, but make it about a woman and people would understand and be empathetic. Yes, reading it does sound (maybe) trivial, but only if it's every now and then


Balance it to a girl with big boobs - 1 friend might see a look ar a comment aimed at her once or twice when they are together. So what, maybe once or twice whilst they are out for coffee - an hour?

Times that by the 8 - 12 hours said girl is out amongst other people and not at home. and it's a minimum of 16 times a day.

Most people would say a couple of comments are trivial, but ongoing comments each and everyday becomes exhausting and mentally difficult



Is that the same as the male example? Not exactly.

But it could easily put someone off going to certain places, driving certain vehicles etc - exactly the same a the girl who hunches her shoulders, wears clothes that attempt to hide her shape, doesn't look up so as to avoid the looks and discourage the comments.



It's very early and I know I'm waffling - but it's a situation that shouldn't happen, it's hassle, it's unwanted attention etc etc.

I also don't think the sexual abuse on men is minute in comparison to on women - yes it's less, but minute? No

It's just that men don't want to tel anyone for fear of being mocked; they've seen how women are treated when the stand up and say what's happened, and they are supposed to be tough strong men so think of the shit they'd get if they admit to any kind of abuse, mental or physical?

[gremlin]

It's funny how the men (that I know, anyway) who trivialise such behaviour are the first to get all indignant and puffed-up when you suggest that it could be their wife or daughter on the receiving end of it.

Funny that, innit?

[IccyV2]

So men can’t be sexually abused?

I'm sure there's examples of sexual abuse on men.

In minute proportion to the other way round though. And your example was spectacularly trivial, hence why I assumed it was April fools humblebrag nonsense.

Yeah I always use sexual abuse as an April fools joke

I don't find sexual abuse or unwanted approaches funny, obviously you do so I'll leave you with it, you're giving me the ick now.
This is exactly how people like Scott Mills get away with it, there are always creepy apologists making excuses for the people doing it and shaming the victims.

[DefTrap]

Yeah I always use sexual abuse as an April fools joke

I don't find sexual abuse or unwanted approaches funny, obviously you do so I'll leave you with it, you're giving me the ick now.
This is exactly how people like Scott Mills get away with it, there are always creepy apologists making excuses for the people doing it and shaming the victims.

Get over yourself you plank. You trivialised an important issue with poor-me nonsense. I'm neither creepy, apologist or shaming anyone. FFS!

[IccyV2]

Yeah I always use sexual abuse as an April fools joke

I don't find sexual abuse or unwanted approaches funny, obviously you do so I'll leave you with it, you're giving me the ick now.
This is exactly how people like Scott Mills get away with it, there are always creepy apologists making excuses for the people doing it and shaming the victims.

Get over yourself you plank. You trivialised an important issue with poor-me nonsense. I'm neither creepy, apologist or shaming anyone. FFS!

If your wife came home and complained that every time she parks the car up she gets unwanted sexual advances from men you'd soon be puffing your chest up about it, but men are supposed to put up with it because in your world it's trivial when men suffer from unwanted sexual advances.

The reason Scott Mills abuser probably took years to pluck up the courage to complain is because of men like you who think he was lucky to get the attention and he's probably just bragging for attention.

It's at times like these I genuinely sympathise with all the women that had to endure being ignored about abuse by ignorant men, finally we seem to be getting somewhere with it but sadly ignorant men like you keep other men from reporting abuse when it happens to them.

A study in America found over 30% of boys reported being on the end of unwanted sexual comments or abuse from female teachers and the comments I read on social media from men were "lucky boys" whereas not a single woman thought it was ok. Women are so much more switched on about this stuff and will speak out for men even when other men won't.

Unwanted sexual advances are not funny regardless of gender and you come across as very creepy dismissing someone saying they don't like it as "poor-me nonsense".

[DefTrap]

Unwanted sexual advances are not funny regardless of gender and you come across as very creepy dismissing someone saying they don't like it as "poor-me nonsense".

No - it's not the same, however much you push the analogy - neither in weight of numbers or of impact. Your argument only makes sense if you bring power into it. Your hurt feelings at a car show where you felt disresepcted are as if nothing compared to genuine feelings of fear when people (mainly women) are put in a position where they feel powerless.

For reference, I've only been dismissive about your own anecdote, because frankly I think it's a bollocks and retarded analogy which diminshes a real issue. I'm happy to accept there are examples where men feel abused, I think I said that from the outset, but again the key factor is power.

You're having a lovely time making up stuff about "how you assume I'd react" by the way.

If your wife came home and complained that every time she parks the car up she gets unwanted sexual advances from men you'd soon be puffing your chest up about it

... pluck up the courage to complain is because of men like you ...

... sadly ignorant men like you ...

[IccyV2]

I'm happy to accept there are examples where men feel abused...

Yeah that's usually like women, they feel abused when they're being abused, and they don't need you telling them it's not a problem because they're big strong men who shouldn't be indulging in "poor-me nonsense".

I normally wouldn't bother but I don't want any bloke in a bad place mentally to stumble across this and think all men are like you.

[DefTrap]

Yeah that's usually like women, they feel abused when they're being abused, and they don't need you telling them it's not a problem because they're big strong men who shouldn't be indulging in "poor-me nonsense".

I normally wouldn't bother but I don't want any bloke in a bad place mentally to stumble across this and think all men are like you.

Yeah thanks for continuing your insidious accusations, I normally wouldn't bother either, but I don't want any woman in a bad place mentally to stumble across this and think that some "men like you" think that a man being anecdotally chatted up at a car show is an any way "the same" as millions of women subjected to actual sexual abuse on a daily basis.

I can't believe I had to reiterate that but your desire to twist this into something it isn't by making it creepy is bizarre. I hope you get the support you need if your car show anecdote scenario genuinely affected you. I'm leaving it there.

[IccyV2]

Like I said, it must be appalling to not only go through an experience of abuse at any level, but to then be gaslighted, have to explained back to you where it's been downgraded to something innocent like you being "chatting up" and then shamed for not being ok with it.

It's taken years to get to this point, let's hope it doesn't go backwards.
Even though prison sentences keep getting given out there are still people who think it's ok to treat people like that and it's the enablers that help pass stuff off as ok who need weeding out as well.

[Yorick]

Screenshot_20260331_180700_com_facebook_katana_FbMainTabActivity.jpg (104.05 KiB) Viewed 440 times

[demographic]

There was me naively thinking it was just Me Too and never realised there was an attention seeking offshot called Me me me me too.

[MyLittleStudPony]

There was me naively thinking it was just Me Too and never realised there was an attention seeking offshot called Me me me me too.

Haha!

But did it come as a total surprise?

[IccyV2]

Thank you, much obliged.
Sometimes to get people to open their minds you need actual real examples to play out, I've done this many times here.

So back to the original question about how abusers get away with it and why it happens, because it's outside of most people's sphere of understanding, they can't understand how Scott Mills, Scholfield, Harris, etc, get away with it.
It doesn't make sense does it, you'd think people would immediately raise it and it would get stopped at the first post.

Without going into a long psychology text that people won't read, it can often be because the victim feels shame and embarrassment, they feel that people will make fun of them, or won't believe them, they'll be labelled fantasists or attention seekers, or something.

I recounted an actual true experience of unwanted sexual attention and it played out exactly as the experts say it does - belittled, laughed at, shamed, argued with, etc. This is exactly why victims often don't come forward, we've just done it in real time, but it's well documented in peer reviewed case studies, journals, etc, and I've just proved it in a way that twenty pages of writing couldn't explain.

Victims not being taken seriously or even made fun of is a significant part of the issue and some very brave victims have gone through utterly horrendous experiences to push it into public consciousness, but we're not there yet, it's still ongoing and evidently this level of emotional maturity hasn't reached everyone. This is why some women say they don't feel safe walking down the street, most aren't physically attacked, but they know that some men don't have the emotional maturity to understand what is acceptable and what isn't. As evidenced on here.

They've started teaching this type of emotional maturity in schools now, so it's a good start and large corporations run courses as well, I had to go on a lengthy course aimed at protecting people in the workplace but also how to spot signs that things aren't ok at home. The stats on abuse are scary, but it's really only the beginning, as I've demonstrated right here there are lots of people that walk amongst us who have zero capability to understand anything from the victims reality and that's how Scott Mills was able to ply his trade in plain sight.

[DefTrap]

Give the others some credit - it's mainly me that thinks you're a dopey plank.

[IccyV2]

Give the others some credit - it's mainly me that thinks you're a dopey plank.

The opening question was "How does this come about?" and I knew I couldn't explain it, I'd have to actually demonstrate how it happens.
So I used a real example and how predictable it was.

Abusers can get away with abuse in many cases because the bystanders will employ all kinds of mental gymnastics to make it invisible.

You flipped my scenario to suit your bias that it was just a bit of harmless chatting up and if you're capable of that sort of mental gymnastics then you're capable of much more. I'm sure you're going to try and distance yourself from it, but you just demonstrated how abuse gets a squeeze in lots of instances.

The example and genders weren't important, it was a demonstration of how people will bend the truth to make abuse invisible.

It's happening too slowly, but it is changing and it doesn't matter how many taxi drivers and jobbing builders try to stick to their guns, the abusers are being outed one by one and cultural change is making it harder to hide.

[crust]

People think carefully before you post your next response.

This is turning into ming mong pong. Stick to debating the point rather than personal digs, please.

[Horse]

So men can’t be sexually abused?

I'm sure there's examples of sexual abuse on men.

It may sound trivial, but make it about a woman and people would understand and be empathetic.

Balance it to a girl with big boobs ...

Many years ago, local radio on while driving to work.

Three female presenters were lusting over Tom Daley's physique (before he came out).

He was 15 at the time.

Could you imagine the furore if three male presenters were lusting over a 15 yo female?

I was shocked, really couldn't believe that three women were happy to do that.

[gremlin]

There was a recent advert for a sofa (IIRC), of all things whereby an old lady extolled its value which allowed her to hire a buff waiter wearing very little to serve her tea.

Hilarious!

Now flip that to an old man with a scantily clad young lady. Suddenly he's a dirty old man and there's outrage.

Wierd, innit?

It seems that what Benny Hill did and is now, rightly, treated with distain for still seems OK if you reverse the genders. Maybe it can be justified by striking the balance after years of one-sided imagery. I just find I tawdry.
Don't get me started on the brolly-dollies still seen at dome racing events.

[IccyV2]

I'm sure there's examples of sexual abuse on men.

It may sound trivial, but make it about a woman and people would understand and be empathetic.

Balance it to a girl with big boobs ...

Many years ago, local radio on while driving to work.

Three female presenters were lusting over Tom Daley's physique (before he came out).

He was 15 at the time.

Could you imagine the furore if three male presenters were lusting over a 15 yo female?

I was shocked, really couldn't believe that three women were happy to do that.

I recall there being discussion about it, mostly passed off at the time as harmless fun, but fortunately these days totally unacceptable.
The benefit of exposing things like this is that all abuse gets a spotlight on it and it makes people reconsider what is acceptable.

Change is never easy though, people don't like it and the person that exposes it often faces backlash.

[Taipan]

I'm sure there's examples of sexual abuse on men.

It may sound trivial, but make it about a woman and people would understand and be empathetic.

Balance it to a girl with big boobs ...

Many years ago, local radio on while driving to work.

Three female presenters were lusting over Tom Daley's physique (before he came out).

He was 15 at the time.

Could you imagine the furore if three male presenters were lusting over a 15 yo female?

I was shocked, really couldn't believe that three women were happy to do that.

When I first started working from home I found my wife has the TV on during the day and the daytime programmes are Good Morning and then Loose Women. Listening to Loose Women was a revelation! Janet Street Porter making lewd comments over the Poldark actor was cringeworthy, but her cohorts seemed to enjoy it. Then i heard the hypocrisy of their disgust over men doing the same thing. I soon found out it wasn't an isolated event.

I get what iccy says about gold diggers and the car being the initial attraction too. I had the pleasure of driving a lot of other people's luxury cars about in the 80s. Pull up outside a busy pub garden in a Cortina wont get you a look, but in a Porsche or Merc etc. and you'll soon get company.

I used to do dispatching and I'd to deliver to a electronics factory which was mainly staffed by women on the shop floor. I'd often get rude suggestions made to me and my arse grabbed, normally by women a lot older than me. When I sold office equipment i'd demo photocopiers, often to the mainly female secretaries and support staff, and there were always suggestive questions about giving them an enlargement or loaded remarks about reproduction. IME, a man going into a female environment wasn't much different to women walking past a building site. Sexism has always been a double edged sword.