Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

[Wreckless Rat]

The thing I want to see solved is townies... the street after street of cars parked outside terrace houses etc... how are they going to charge their cars at night?

If you've got a car which can do 500 miles per charge and takes an hour to fill up - which is by no means a flight of fancy- you don't need to charge it outside your house. You can charge it while you're at the shops/gym/work/cinema/whatever.

I make it sound so simple, and of course it won't be, but I do think a recalibration of ownership behaviour will take place.

Which means a recalibration of policemen, traffic wardens, bosses, wives, schools....

Humans are shit at timing, millions of them are, and yes most people do get to the garage without running out, plenty don't. Ask the AA/RACE et al. Now, with a fuel driven car, that's relatively easy to fix... having to wait a few hours to get going again....

I still don't understand why fuel cells haven't had the push to the front of the queue. Batteries, when everyone is on them, will use HUGE amounts of earth resources, and generate HUGE amounts of toxic waste, added to the short lifespan of batteries before they drop off the edge...

[Mr. Dazzle]

Fuel cells are not without their own problems. They need rare earth metals too.

As I've said before though, I think the bigger problem is infrastructure. Batteries use an expansion of an existing system which is also used elsewhere...grid electricity. Fuel cells would need a whole new infrastructure.

BTW I fully expect society to change around electric vehicles, just like it did with the introduction of railways, motor vehicles and then cheap motor vehciles. There will be ups and downs, winners and losers just like there always is. The only constant in the world is change.

[Yorick]

Another idea for the pot...

Could car bonnets and roofs be converted to solar panels?
Will be slow, but will add something.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Another idea for the pot...

Could car bonnets and roofs be converted to solar panels?
Will be slow, but will add something.

Good rule of thumb I've heard is "if it gets hot when you use it, it can't be solar powered". They could be a handy top up though, there are already solar powered charging points in sunnier climates.

[Wreckless Rat]

Fuel cells are not without their own problems. They need rare earth metals too.

As I've said before though, I think the bigger problem is infrastructure. Batteries use an expansion of an existing system which is also used elsewhere...grid electricity. Fuel cells would need a whole new infrastructure.

BTW I fully expect society to change around electric vehicles, just like it did with the introduction of railways, motor vehicles and then cheap motor vehciles. There will be ups and downs, winners and losers just like there always is. The only constant in the world is change.

You mean the simple conversion of the thousands of petrol stations.... not as hard I doubt as replacing/upgrading massive amounts of the power grid.

[Mr. Dazzle]

I don't think "simple" is the word. Making, transporting and then storing Hyrdogen is hard. Grid changes aren't simple either, but they do have the advantage of allowing incremental changes.

There are plenty of "Hydrogen transport" projects funded by the government BTW, so it is not like nothing is being done.

[moth]

Electric vehicles are greener than diesel ones.

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/emis ... vironment/

Are they? Is that still the same once you factor in the resources they use, the shipping of the resources around the world, the manufacture and decommissioning of them when they are knackered?

What’s greener, a Tesla that will perhaps last 5 years, or my 1985 LR90 diesel that’s still plodding along?

I think there's a new-ish and increasing branch of science which quantifies whole life impacts. And that's what it says from memory.

No-one alive today needs to consider future environmental impacts, because Mr Dazzle's brilliant problem solving scientific methods will sort it. After they've sorted the environmental impacts of fossil and nuclear fuels

[Cousin Jack]

What’s greener, a Tesla that will perhaps last 5 years, or my 1985 LR90 diesel that’s still plodding along?

The greenest car is the one you already have. And my last petrol car lasted me 17 years, and was almost certainly sold on with probably another 10 years of useful life.

Fashion (and 'keeping up with the Jones's) is the biggest anti-green thing.

[Mr. Dazzle]

What’s greener, a Tesla that will perhaps last 5 years, or my 1985 LR90 diesel that’s still plodding along?

The greenest car is the one you already have. And my last petrol car lasted me 17 years, and was almost certainly sold on with probably another 10 years of useful life.

Fashion (and 'keeping up with the Jones's) is the biggest anti-green thing.

To a very great extent that is true, certainly when you consider the average length of car ownership. All the more reason to press ahead with self driving (electric, naturally ) cars and get people away from ownership IMO.

[Yambo]

Good rule of thumb I've heard is "if it gets hot when you use it, it can't be solar powered". They could be a handy top up though, there are already solar powered charging points in sunnier climates.

I've never heard that and I've been researching a bit around solar power recently as I'm kitting the boat out with it. I also have a friend in Inverurie who is almost totally solar powered for electricity (he's been a useful source of good information).

I googled it but all I could find was stuff about panels getting hot. They sit in the sun ffs, of course they get hot! They also lose some efficiency when they get hot though as my charge controller tells me.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Sorry...I mean, it can't be solar powered "live". If something uses enough electricity that it gets noticeably hot when you're using it you're unlikely to be able to fit solar panels to power it in a practical way. You can get solar powered cars, but they're far from practical!

You can of course charge up batteries to your hearts content. Technology is always improving too.

[moth]

What’s greener, a Tesla that will perhaps last 5 years, or my 1985 LR90 diesel that’s still plodding along?

The greenest car is the one you already have. And my last petrol car lasted me 17 years, and was almost certainly sold on with probably another 10 years of useful life.

Fashion (and 'keeping up with the Jones's) is the biggest anti-green thing.

To a very great extent that is true, certainly when you consider the average length of car ownership. All the more reason to press ahead with self driving (electric, naturally ) cars and get people away from ownership IMO.

That 's a huge ask, you only have to read the threads here with people bragging about their cars. Anyway the rather influential car manufacturer's lobby will never let it happen. It would put luxury and sports car makers out of business.

Mate, the world needs visionaries. It also needs pragmatists. Neither have all the answers, nor will they change human nature.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Yeah I get that I'm rather more optimistic than most. I'd rather reign it in than underachieve though

Where's Iccy when you need him.

[Yambo]

Sorry...I mean, it can't be solar powered "live". If something uses enough electricity that it gets noticeably hot when you're using it you're unlikely to be able to fit solar panels to power it in a practical way. You can get solar powered cars, but they're far from practical!

You can of course charge up batteries to your hearts content. Technology is always improving too.

Ah, OK. As I finish all the bits I'm doing on the boat I'll be sticking a 1000 or maybe a 1500 W inverter in - when I can find somewhere to put it! It'll be to run a fridge as I can't afford a 3 way. Need to keep the beer and rakı cold!

[Horse]

Another idea for the pot...

Could car bonnets and roofs be converted to solar panels?
Will be slow, but will add something.

In the other EV thread I posted a link to such a vehicle.
Edit: perhaps I didn't It's the Aptera
https://www.aptera.us/

And, FWIW, you may find that some ic vehicles already have solar panels! Our local paramedic responder cars do:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22527545

Note that the article is 2013, following a trial the previous year.

[Mr. Dazzle]

There are loads of government grants available for solar power R and D. Loads more for cheap composites R and D and even some more combining the two...

With the advancement in cheaper carbon fibre and cheaper, tougher solar panels I can see structural solar panel roofs being a thing not too far off. They won't power the car enough to actually drive, but you could conceivably get back your commute for free in the carpark at work.

[Wreckless Rat]

From the research I done - it appears electric cars only become greener than a conventional car, at around twice the average life expectancy of a current new car in Europe. And that’s assuming it gets that far on one battery cell pack, which it clearly won’t.

This is a fools rush to a tech that does nothing but move the pollution.

[ZRX61]

Fuck no. My State doesn't have the grid capacity to run all the stuff we already have & at least once they've told people not to charge their Tesla's etc to prevent brown outs. Things won't be getting any better with the latest building code that prohibits new construction using gas & everything has to be 100% electric... which is going to work really well with them closing down dozens of back up plants that use gas turbines to generate power & refusal to build any new generating plants. We have less generating power than when the population was half what it is now.
So basically:
Double population.
Decrease generating capacity
Force everyone to 100% electricity use.
Ban new gas powered cars in 15 years
They turn off the power when it gets windy.
If anyone can explain the logic behind this, please educate the rest of us.

[moth]

From the research I done - it appears electric cars only become greener than a conventional car, at around twice the average life expectancy of a current new car in Europe. And that’s assuming it gets that far on one battery cell pack, which it clearly won’t.

This is a fools rush to a tech that does nothing but move the pollution.

UNDERACHIEVER!

[Wreckless Rat]

From the research I done - it appears electric cars only become greener than a conventional car, at around twice the average life expectancy of a current new car in Europe. And that’s assuming it gets that far on one battery cell pack, which it clearly won’t.

This is a fools rush to a tech that does nothing but move the pollution.

UNDERACHIEVER!

Or realist...