Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

[Asian Boss]

I filled my current hybrid yesterday. Dash tells me it has a range of 550 miles. If I drive it carefully for a few miles that may actually go up a bit.

Bit like my son's 280k mile Mk4 Golf Tdi then. Which one's greener, over a lifespan?

Electric vehicles are greener than diesel ones.

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/emis ... vironment/

[moth]

So a dedicated parking space (drop down post) and in-surface inductive charging. Sorted. Invoice in the post/email


Vague memory is that the battery only distance requirement will exceed most/all current hybrids.

Digging up across multiple other properties would still need all the permissions (property owners, management company, planning permission, listed building planning permission and impact assessment from assorted heritage bodies), followed with a requirement to reinstate a VERY expensive psuedo-cobbled surface that was a feature of the original permission to build. A wheelbarrow of tarmac and a whacker plate is not going to cut it.

I filled my current hybrid yesterday. Dash tells me it has a range of 550 miles. If I drive it carefully for a few miles that may actually go up a bit.

All the stuff you've listed was everyday work when I did External Planning for BT over 20 years ago, it's just paperwork and money, piece of piss if you know what you're doing.

Then you'll know that the major cost of any UG cabling job is excavation and re-instatement, and the fines...

[Mr. Dazzle]

Its a bit hard to compare.

What do you include in "engine"?

For scale, our latest 250kW/330bhp motor is about the size of 2 dinner plates stacked back to back and costs....well I'm not at liberty to say, but its not THAT expensive. It is more than a 330bhp piston engine I'd say.

The motor doesn't need an exhaust, an inlet manifold, a gearbox, fuel pumps, air filters or a clutch though. It needs cooling, but much much less than a regular engine. It also needs a control unit and obviously a battery.

Based on the sales price of electric cars its currently more expensive to make an "equivalent" electric car, but that's as much down to economies of scale as anything.

[Mr. Dazzle]

No-one's spotted the awkward little detail yet. Mr Dazzle seems to have lost interest.

Yeah that's why I said "there will be problems to solve" loads of times.

Some people see problems as a reason not to do stuff, others don't.

[moth]

No-one's spotted the awkward little detail yet. Mr Dazzle seems to have lost interest.

Yeah that's why I said "there will be problems to solve" loads of times.

Some people see problems as a reason not to do stuff, others don't.

Just about any problem is solvable if you throw enough money at it, and ignore some rules and regulations. Question is, whose money?

Some people are dealing with the problems, because the reason has been dropped on them. From a great height.

[Mr. Dazzle]

No-one's spotted the awkward little detail yet. Mr Dazzle seems to have lost interest.

Yeah that's why I said "there will be problems to solve" loads of times.

Some people see problems as a reason not to do stuff, others don't.

Just about any problem is solvable if you throw enough money at it, and ignore some rules and regulations. Question is, whose money?

Some people are dealing with the problems, because the reason has been dropped on them. From a great height.

The consumers of course. Who pays for all those oil rigs, gas pipelines, sewage works and 5G masts?

I don't deny that some people have had the problem "dropped on them"...but meh, that has been happening since before people knew how to write problems down. We've all had our share of things dumped on us.

[Horse]

tell me the last time things got cheaper! Even VED will go up to level the playing field if they can't base it on emissions.

Road pricing is likely to come in some form too.

Cheaper? How about service intervals being extended, sealed for life batteries, spark plugs used to be worn out by 5000 miles, car wheel bearings don't have to be greased ...

[moth]

Yeah that's why I said "there will be problems to solve" loads of times.

Some people see problems as a reason not to do stuff, others don't.

Just about any problem is solvable if you throw enough money at it, and ignore some rules and regulations. Question is, whose money?

Some people are dealing with the problems, because the reason has been dropped on them. From a great height.

The consumers of course. Who pays for all those oil rigs, gas pipelines, sewage works and 5G masts?

I don't deny that some people have had the problem "dropped on them"...but meh, that has been happening since before people knew how to write problems down. We've all had our share of things dumped on us.

Since privatisation, not so much unless it's by government edict.

The cost of replacing underground mains cabling is eye-watering, and much of it is falling on the DNOs. One foreign owned (they all are) network operator is pulling out of the UK. The re-inforcement costs weren't a major factor, but they were certainly considered.

Don't be confusing DNOs with energy suppliers. DNO's get ~3.5% of the price of consumed electrify in their network area, and the DNOs don't have any say in that pricing. A great many new developments are serviced by IDNOs who have contracts with the major building companies and they aren't restricted to a defined area. The uplift costs that local DNOs are allowed to charge the IDNOs aren't huge.

The UK electricity supply industry is hearing for interesting times over the next decade. Thank fuck I'll be out of it

[wheelnut]

Someone has got to pay for upgrading the electricity distribution network infrastructure to cope with the increased demand created by vehicle charging points.

The DNO's won't, not their problem unless OFGEM or the government make it their problem..

Before the 'renewables will cover it' brigade get going, it's much more basic than generation capacity.

Look on the bright side, the underground cables will be that hot it will keep the ice off the pavements.

[Wreckless Rat]

The thing I want to see solved is townies... the street after street of cars parked outside terrace houses etc... how are they going to charge their cars at night?

[moth]

The thing I want to see solved is townies... the street after street of cars parked outside terrace houses etc... how are they going to charge their cars at night?

Lamp post charging.

Spoiler

AKA Illegal abstraction.

[Wreckless Rat]

The thing I want to see solved is townies... the street after street of cars parked outside terrace houses etc... how are they going to charge their cars at night?

Lamp post charging.

Spoiler

AKA Illegal abstraction.

and a gypos heaven... miles and miles of thick copper cables up for grabs every.single.night

[wheelnut]

Electric vehicles are greener than diesel ones.

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/emis ... vironment/

Are they? Is that still the same once you factor in the resources they use, the shipping of the resources around the world, the manufacture and decommissioning of them when they are knackered?

What’s greener, a Tesla that will perhaps last 5 years, or my 1985 LR90 diesel that’s still plodding along?

[Mr. Dazzle]

The thing I want to see solved is townies... the street after street of cars parked outside terrace houses etc... how are they going to charge their cars at night?

If you've got a car which can do 500 miles per charge and takes an hour to fill up - which is by no means a flight of fancy- you don't need to charge it outside your house. You can charge it while you're at the shops/gym/work/cinema/whatever.

I make it sound so simple, and of course it won't be, but I do think a recalibration of ownership behaviour will take place.

[Asian Boss]

Electric vehicles are greener than diesel ones.

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/emis ... vironment/

Are they? Is that still the same once you factor in the resources they use, the shipping of the resources around the world, the manufacture and decommissioning of them when they are knackered?

What’s greener, a Tesla that will perhaps last 5 years, or my 1985 LR90 diesel that’s still plodding along?

I think there's a new-ish and increasing branch of science which quantifies whole life impacts. And that's what it says from memory.

[wheelnut]

If you've got a car which can do 500 miles per charge and takes an hour to fill up - which is by no means a flight of fancy- you don't need to charge it outside your house. You can charge it while you're at the shops/gym/work/cinema/whatever.

I make it sound so simple, and of course it won't be, but I do think a recalibration of ownership behaviour will take place.

At the moment, I don’t see electric vehicle use as being scaleable. Yes, if course it’s doable, but the infrastructure needed is a massive ask.

Imagine a Tesco car park with every single parking place having a charging point? Imagine the power draw. Yes perhaps that’s a little extreme, but people, especially in cities where there’s less availability of home charging, will want to charge wherever they go and a couple of charging points here and there isn’t going to cut it.

I don’t think the charging systems are even standardised across manufacturers yet are they?

[demographic]

Electric vehicles are greener than diesel ones.

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/emis ... vironment/

Are they? Is that still the same once you factor in the resources they use, the shipping of the resources around the world, the manufacture and decommissioning of them when they are knackered?

What’s greener, a Tesla that will perhaps last 5 years, or my 1985 LR90 diesel that’s still plodding along?

Factor in the shipping of the diesel, the infrastru ture needed to support it, the CO2 it emits and yada yada yada.

The calculations have been done, after a few years the lecky car is better than the old diesel and the batteries can be reused for grid storage when they're not upto scratch for cars then recycled for the materials for new batteries.

[Mr. Dazzle]

I wonder how many petrol pumps there are per car....

Obviously it takes alot longer to charge than it does to use a pump. Say its 60 times longer (based on a 2 minute fill up vs a 2 hour charge). Does 60 times as many "pumps" seem crazy? I really can't picture it.

[demographic]

I wonder how many petrol pumps there are per car....

Obviously it takes alot longer to charge than it does to use a pump. Say its 60 times longer (based on a 2 minute fill up vs a 2 hour charge). Does 60 times as many "pumps" seem crazy? I really can't picture it.

How many people have a garage or off st parking though?

I don't cos it would see that I'm a "townie" nowadays but a lot do and some of them even have a south facing roof for solar and space for battery storage.

[Mr. Dazzle]

I'm just thinking along the "what if all the chargers are occupied?" lines. Clearly there are enough petrol pumps to go around (probably too many in fact, can't remember the last time I saw a new garage but I've seen loads close down?)...in simple terms if there were 100 times as many charging points as there are petrol pumps that would be nominally enough. Dunno how many that is.

I expect that as people get more used to owning electric cars the whole "where am I gonna charge?" anxiety will decrease alot.