Bike ramp into cellar (planning...)

[Dutchman]

I keep my bike in an http://armadilloboxes.co.uk/ box. It's great but there's only room for one bike, no room to work on it etc. I have however also got a cellar - you can see the window in the bottom of the bay here, to the right of the box, with the white lintel.

20200404_180158 by Nic Holland, on Flickr

The driveway slopes upwards towards the house. Next-door (semi so same building) has a lower drive, with some steps down to a door to access their cellar. I'd like to (probably get someone in post corona to do this) remove the window, install a door, dig out access and put a ramp + retaining walls in so I can keep bikes in the cellar.

The cellar window looks out onto a sort of walled in hole that's filled in with gravel. Other houses on the street have a sloping window bridging the gap where the hole is i.e the hole is supposed to be part of the cellar I think. Anyway at somepoint someone has put a concrete wall + upvc window in dividing that bit off, then filling in with gravel. Hopefully the photos below explain it better:

20200404_180140 by Nic Holland, on Flickr

20200404_180540 by Nic Holland, on Flickr

Here's how it looks inside:

20200404_180522 by Nic Holland, on Flickr

20200404_180447 by Nic Holland, on Flickr

Anyway I was thinking of making a first step at it by constructing a temporary sloping lid on it to cover the area currently full of gravel, removing gravel, knock through concrete wall, remove upvc window. The I think the next step would be getting someone in to excavate, put retaining walls , extending the small walls already there, maybe going a bit wider, put a ramp in and make good the drive to either side...

Anyone done anything similar, anything I should be looking out for, potential pitfalls etc? Possibly daft idea but seems at least possible given next door have steps down & a door...

[Horse]

Caveat: i kno nurthing.

But ... if the council get even a whiff that you are looking to store a vehicle in there, you might get to have install all sorts of fireproofing.

Also, potentially that would need planning permission, at the least you probably ought to have building control. 'Ought to' being the operative term. Is anyone likely to see the work and notify the council?

Finally, theft resistance; could someone have access to the bike, then the inside of the house - make sure it's a strong and fireproof door?

[demographic]

Nope, never done it before but have some building experience, I'm a carpenter but have two brothers who are builders as well so take this with whatever that suggests.

Make it wide enough so there's a bit of space either side, put handrails up on the sides or someone will cack over and fall in.
I don't know your conditions as far as drainage is concerned but water flows downhill, make sure its got somewhere to go.
Possibly an Aco drain (or something like it) at the bottom of the slope but I dont know what it will have to join up with. Thats an on site inspection thing.

As a general dealing with builders or everyone else thing?
Don't automaticaly trust every builder who shows up, just like financial consultants some of them are full of shite or just thick as fook. Talk to em and see what they say, ask stupid questions. You can often find out more about people if they think you are a divvy customer than when their guard is up and they know you are a bit sharper.

Water still flows downhill, give it somewhere to go.

[demographic]

Oh yeah and as Horse mentioned and I totally forgot, double layer of plasterboard, all joints overlapped so they don't line up so you get an hours worth of fireproofing, a 54mm thick solid core door with double fire smoke seals in the casing. Petrol bike downstairs =firebomb that can wipe your family out in a night.
Door closer and no fucking wedges holding it open.

[Horse]

And mains linked smoke detectors upstairs and basement.

[Davie lad]

Talk to your house insurer, see what they say..

[Dutchman]

Thanks both. Should be OK on the council front as on very good terms with all neighbours, plus plan to be here for the next decade or two so not overly worried from a selling the house on POV.

Drainage - there's a drain pipe somewhere underneath it all that I'm hoping will be usable to drain water running down any ramp. The pipe If not possible I suppose a soakaway but less keen on that as I don't want to be digging too deep in close proximity to the house walls.

Good points re fireproofing and railings, thanks.

And re builders yeah I did have ne guy come round but he was wide as hell so no way - partly why i'm asking on here first.

Thanks again

[Gimlet]

Soakaways need to be 6 metres away from the house to comply with building regs.

[GuzziPaul]

I don't reckon you have enough room to get a gradient you could ride up. I stayed in a house in France last year that had a basement garage/rooms. The horizontal length of the ramp was about 8m and it was still pretty steep, I couldn't push the bike up the slope.
I would suggest the first job would be a bit of maths/trigonometry.

Measure the head clearance you need when sat on the bike (2m?)so you know how deep you need to go, that will give you one side of the triangle, then the angle you reckon you could ride up, maybe 30 degs?. With that you should be able to work out the hypotenuse, which will then give you the adjacent, which will tell you how much garden you will loose.

[PitaNaanRoti]

Use a different type of ramp.
Simple change of use for a hydraulic bench.
Ride on, drop it, ride in.
Reverse

[GuzziPaul]

Thats what I've been thinking about, a hydraulic lift, straight up and down wouldn't take up much room. Can be left in the up position so would be safe and secure.
https://www.pennyhydraulics.com/products/goods-lifts/

[PitaNaanRoti]

No real change to the actual building installation either that way.

[Horse]

Re handrail: I had an extension and decking built; the extension was fine under permitted development, but needed building control (including structural calculations). The decking needed planning permission as it was over 30 inches high.

[Dutchman]

Thanks I'll do the triangle thing. The driveway slopes downwards though so hopefully helps matters. I do really like the lift idea though, could get very Thunderbirds.

Fortunately I have a lot of time to think all these things through before I can get anyone in to start digging/building. I think I'll work from the inside out I.e. improve and fireproofing the cellar first. Worst that can happen is I end up with a better workshop if access proves a no go.

The current laminate flooring for example is poorly laid and not a good surface (slippery). So want to take that up and see what horrors lie beneath. Hopefully find out more about the drainage situation. Neighbour tells me the previous occupant said he'd installed a sump pump somewhere down there so we'll see. Will post pics when I get on with it.

Thanks again all.

[demographic]

I don't reckon you have enough room to get a gradient you could ride up. I stayed in a house in France last year that had a basement garage/rooms. The horizontal length of the ramp was about 8m and it was still pretty steep, I couldn't push the bike up the slope.
I would suggest the first job would be a bit of maths/trigonometry.

Measure the head clearance you need when sat on the bike (2m?)so you know how deep you need to go, that will give you one side of the triangle, then the angle you reckon you could ride up, maybe 30 degs?. With that you should be able to work out the hypotenuse, which will then give you the adjacent, which will tell you how much garden you will loose.

30 degrees is a common roof pitch, after working on a lot of rooves I wouldn't want to push a bike up one and I'm just guessing that the transition from the pitch to level at the top might cause the bike to ground, depending on it's ground clearance.

The lift idea might be better?

[crust]

Hydraulic lift for the win.

Have a search for rams and pipes from old fork lifts, JCBs etc

[Horse]

Presumably if a hydraulic lift is used, you would need it to be on wheels, to roll back inside when not in use?

[GuzziPaul]

I was thinking more of a permanent one like you see at pub beer cellars. Covered by a metal hatch in two pieces that flips open as the lift rises and closes as the lift decends.

[Horse]

That could do it, the flaps being a neater option too.

[Dutchman]

I like the hatch. Adds a touch of Wallace & Gromit to proceedings.

Been looking at scissor platform lifts on this site:

https://edmolift.co.uk/custom-scissor-lift/

Probably a bit spendy but I might get in touch with them to get an idea - you never know. One thing I was pondering was the length of the lifting platform in relation to the height i.e. is there a max ratio. The platform will need to be about 2 - 2.5m long, so I'm guessing that will be ok for a raise of say 1.8m on a scissor lift. Tho actually it won't need to go that high as 2m out from the wall the elvation is lower. In which case maybe a standard motorcycle lift like one here might give enough elevation... Will have a crack at measurements tomorrow if rain holds off.

https://bikerrated.com/gear/maintenance ... cle-lifts/

I was thinking non-movable but I suppose the on-wheels idea might have merit i.e. lower bike down on the platform (with lift wheels locked), then when it's down unlock wheels and I could roll it into the cellar space once the bike's off it and use it as a workbench.