Parking war question

[Mussels]

I would clarify what is meant by 'access to their garages'
Does it state vehicular access, or just access in general?
A locked post type of bollard will allow access, just not vehicular.
And if everyone but Mr Twatface has a key, even better.
In law, one must not assume the obvious, if it is not actually stated.

After a number of years access becomes implied so even if vehicles aren't specifically mentioned (I've never known them to be specified) they are likely to have ROW now.

Do you know anyone who works for a conveyancer? Individuals can pay to get registry details but they pay per property, a law firm may have a subscription and can get an area map with all the red lines.

I doubt anything involvong 'fines' will work, he will refuse to pay out of misguided principle and it will antagonise the situation.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Dog shit it is then.

[ChrisW]

Right of way is different to right to park a vehicle, isn't it?

As has been said already - give them sight of the deeds. Your neighbour should probably do the same, too.

[Supermofo]

The access thing is covered I think, you can easily get a car passed our parked cars with room to spare so it's just him parking in neighbours land I think.

[Dodgy69]

Is your neighbour unable to park outside his own house because of this cock. ?

[.....]

If you have a right which is set out in a deed of easement, then you need to properly understand the extent of the right, what you are permitted to do and how limited the right may be. If, for example, you have the benefit of an easement that allows you to drive over a neighbour's land to reach your own land, and you start parking on the neighbour's land, then that would breach the terms of the easement and the neighbour would be able to take action against you for breach of contract or trespass.

[Sunny]

You mentioned that you get on with him (for the time being at least). So I'd start by asking him why he's started parking there - might help to frame the conversation. Then casually 'look up' your deeds on your phone to show him he's in the wrong.

[DefTrap]

I'd agree that what is clear and obvious to one party (i.e. invisible rights of way and / or invisible boundaries) are not clear at all to another party. Plus these days folk "know their rights" as in Facebook or another d!ckhead told them and they can't be bothered to double-check. Here in France boundaries and rights-of-way make no sense whatsoever - it's reasonably common to own landlocked parcels of land with unclear access and 'rights' based upon bullish claims passed down through generations.

I understand not wanting to get involved, but a friendly chat and just happening to have your own deeds to hand as example might be able to resolve this while not being directly involved. Say your piece, walk away, let them think on it - treat them like you'd treat an unruly child.

[Horse]

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Sadly (not really, as all sorts of abuse was happening) now illegal in the UK.


To OP, I've had two houses with variations of this. So, questions:

- as well as land registry foot actual land owned, what do the deeds say about access? One house had a common footpath, with joint agreement (terrace, access from one end) for car access.

- has anyone subsequently claimed additional rights? Current house has a common access track, but eg I only have rights in one direction. However, after 12 years usage IIRC I can claim rights over full length.

But parking in someone else's garden is taking the piss. Hammer in wooden posts, or place pot plants, etc.

[Supermofo]

You mentioned that you get on with him (for the time being at least). So I'd start by asking him why he's started parking there - might help to frame the conversation. Then casually 'look up' your deeds on your phone to show him he's in the wrong.

I understand not wanting to get involved, but a friendly chat and just happening to have your own deeds to hand as example might be able to resolve this while not being directly involved. Say your piece, walk away, let them think on it - treat them like you'd treat an unruly child.

Yeah at the moment there is no bad blood between us(yet) so plan is to catch him when I see him next and say something along the lines of.
"Hi mate, didn't really want to get involved in the issues between you and X but I kind of am now, just wanted to mention off the back of Monday that what next door neighbour said is true, they do own the land behind their house, I thought this was the case but wasn't 100% sure at the time, but I've had a check of my deeds which I've got and I own the land out the back of mine, so assuming their plot is the same they are telling the truth. Happy to show you if you want and it helps sort things out. Get you might not get on with X but it would be nice to resolve it all and move on if possible"

[Supermofo]

To OP, I've had two houses with variations of this. So, questions:

- as well as land registry foot actual land owned, what do the deeds say about access? One house had a common footpath, with joint agreement (terrace, access from one end) for car access.

I'd have to dig it out as it was all in legalese and there was a lot of it, but from what I could understand it appeared to say that reasonable access should be allowed to properties further along, for maintenance of properties, new pipes that needed to be laid etc and their garage is along there so access to that, not that you can fit a car in the garage . But the key take away I think is that we own it. I don't think anyone has an issue with driving down there to unload his car of shopping, cleaning etc. Just parking on our (royal our as it's next door) land, which is definitely not access.

In a funny way a parallel could be drawn to his house. The far 4 houses have gardens which are about 30ft longer than ours and end where the back of the garages are. However there is a path through their gardens for access. So matey has his usual garden, a shared path and then extra garden. My assumption being he owns it all but must allow access along the path. The parallel would be it would be fine for his next door neighbour to walk through his garden, but not have a BBQ in his newly built pergola!

[Yorick]

If it's your land, put a floor post in, leaving enough room to get past, but not enough to park
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[Supermofo]

If it's your land, put a floor post in, leaving enough room to get past, but not enough to park
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Yes, that's what Reddit suggested as a last resort. I could put 1 or 2 posts in half a car width from my fence which would stop parking but allow access...but I bloody well hope I don't have to and he sees sense!

[Horse]

To OP, I've had two houses with variations of this. So, questions:

- as well as land registry foot actual land owned, what do the deeds say about access? One house had a common footpath, with joint agreement (terrace, access from one end) for car access.

I'd have to dig it out as it was all in legalese and there was a lot of it, but from what I could understand it appeared to say that reasonable access should be allowed to properties further along, for maintenance of properties, new pipes that needed to be laid etc and their garage is along there so access to that, not that you can fit a car in the garage . But the key take away I think is that we own it. I don't think anyone has an issue with driving down there to unload his car of shopping, cleaning etc. Just parking on our (royal our as it's next door) land, which is definitely not access.

I can't remember whether it's just in the deeds, or Land Registry summary too.

The LR map has an outline of the current property, including the track, and a highlighted line along the track in just in one direction. We've lived there, and used the track in both directions, for 27 years; a solicitor advised that we could claim rights of access.

At the terrace house, built in 1888 so long before personal motorised transport, there was a common access footpath. Vehicle access was by agreement of owners, confirmed in writing.

However, access aside, parking on someone else's property is taking the piss, no two ways.

So, if it's your land, either ask him nicely, or (and if he ignores the request) go straight to 'action'.

How much of a row do you want (keeping in mind you're legally obligated to disclose it when selling)?

Options could include:
- soft ground? Hammer in stakes, wiggle to loosen, lift out when you need access
- place tubs of plants if you don't need to use the space
- place a wheelbarrow if you do
- creating soft earth so he sinks in
- strimming your garden and flicking up stones (when his car's there)
- that wheelbarrow? Dump a couple of loads of gravel ...

Or get a wreck of car that he won't know the owner of, park on his land when he's left his car on yours. Legally, he can apply to DVLA to identify the registered keeper, but he may not know that.

[Horse]

NB when we cleared the bottom 25' of garden (alongside the track) I pushed in a few posts as a deterrent until the fence was built.

Nothing substantial. But, in your case, definitely a bad thing if he deliberately moves anything rather than 'just' using a space.


Also, worth having a copy of LR map, with marked ownership line, to prove it is your property.

[Cousin Jack]

Time we put this topic to bed. The solution is to nuke the district, sorry about Supermofo but it is the only way to make sure and some casualties are inevitable.

[Supermofo]

Spoke to matey and it was all pretty amicable. He said his beef with things is that 1st time he parked there next door went round and started effing and jeffing. I said I got that things had gone wrong but was hoping maybe we could clarify stuff amicably and move on. He asked to see the docs and I was happy to show him the deeds/plot and he asked if he could take a pic and I said sure, don't want him to feel like I'm hiding anything.

As to what it says I think the important bits are.
"hereby transfer..the land shown edged in red (house/gardens/my garage) and coloured yellow (land between back fence and garage door)"

Re access I think the import bit is
"The right of way at all times for the purposes of giving access to part of the property hereby transferred with or without vehicles over and along the land coloured brown on the said plan annexed hereto"

The brown bit is the access road between the houses and garages.

Now matey said if it's in black and white he'll have to accept it and it was just his believe that it must belong to all of us as his garage is there and he was miffed at next doors attitude first time round. He then went onto say, that us parking there could be seen as blocking access to his garage to park his car So, I said to be fair none of us could fit our cars in the garages (they are tiny) and there was plenty of space with a car parked there to access the properties/garages further down. I guess we'll see if he takes that up further. I hope not and he's just venting whilst backing down! We'll see.

I think if he does press that last point, then none of us will park there and they'll be even more cars in the road which does no one any favours him included, so let's hope he doesn't try and screw things up.

[mangocrazy]

In this kind of situation it's crucial to give the other party an exit route (in the argument, not in the parking sense) that he/she can take without being seen to have backed down or been forced into it. And as SM has done, be entirely reasonable and give legal proof to the aggrieved party. From what SM has said, this all kicked off because there was a shouting match and no-one could back down without looking a bit of a tit.

[The Martian]

Put a sign up saying "parking here indicates agreement to surprise bum sex" and next time he parks there, be waiting in your gimp suit.

99% likely to be an extremely effective deterrent.

[KungFooBob]

Unless the fella likes bum sex.