Is KTM in financial trouble?

[mangocrazy]

The new regs are Euro 5+. A Google found this:

All new models launched in 2024 had to be Euro 5+ compliant but from 1 January it will apply to all new bikes sold. Dealers have until the end of 2025 to sell any 2024 Euro 5 models in stock.

Euro 5 has been around since 2020 so every unsold bike intended for the European market should be legal to sell up to the end of the year.

So expect a serious fire sale in October/November. I'd expect them to be selling at or below cost just to get some return. Unless of course a White Knight comes to the rescue. Unlikely though...

[Pirahna]

The new regs are Euro 5+. A Google found this:

All new models launched in 2024 had to be Euro 5+ compliant but from 1 January it will apply to all new bikes sold. Dealers have until the end of 2025 to sell any 2024 Euro 5 models in stock.

Euro 5 has been around since 2020 so every unsold bike intended for the European market should be legal to sell up to the end of the year.

So expect a serious fire sale in October/November. I'd expect them to be selling at or below cost just to get some return. Unless of course a White Knight comes to the rescue. Unlikely though...

I'd expect a load of pre-registered, zero miles bikes to get around the Euro 5 thing. They'll be cheaper than brand new but probably not by much.

A KTM is on my shortlist of bikes this year but now there's a question mark, will the dealers still be there, what about warranty and spares?

[mangocrazy]

The new regs are Euro 5+. A Google found this:

All new models launched in 2024 had to be Euro 5+ compliant but from 1 January it will apply to all new bikes sold. Dealers have until the end of 2025 to sell any 2024 Euro 5 models in stock.

Euro 5 has been around since 2020 so every unsold bike intended for the European market should be legal to sell up to the end of the year.

So expect a serious fire sale in October/November. I'd expect them to be selling at or below cost just to get some return. Unless of course a White Knight comes to the rescue. Unlikely though...

I'd expect a load of pre-registered, zero miles bikes to get around the Euro 5 thing. They'll be cheaper than brand new but probably not by much.

A KTM is on my shortlist of bikes this year but now there's a question mark, will the dealers still be there, what about warranty and spares?

It's all in the lap of the gods, isn't it? I really wouldn't like to guess whuich way it's going to go. For Europe's largest motorcycle manufacturer (allegedly) to go bust is almost incomprehensible, but unless the banks play ball that's quite possibly what will happen. I think it's a game of poker at present, bluff and counter-bluff. The stakes are high...

[Yorick]

The new regs are Euro 5+. A Google found this:

All new models launched in 2024 had to be Euro 5+ compliant but from 1 January it will apply to all new bikes sold. Dealers have until the end of 2025 to sell any 2024 Euro 5 models in stock.

Euro 5 has been around since 2020 so every unsold bike intended for the European market should be legal to sell up to the end of the year.

So expect a serious fire sale in October/November. I'd expect them to be selling at or below cost just to get some return. Unless of course a White Knight comes to the rescue. Unlikely though...

I'd expect a load of pre-registered, zero miles bikes to get around the Euro 5 thing. They'll be cheaper than brand new but probably not by much.

A KTM is on my shortlist of bikes this year but now there's a question mark, will the dealers still be there, what about warranty and spares?

The warranties have always been famously bad. One additional reason for the downfall.

[Supermofo]

The warranty is a big thing too, you aren't gonna wanna sink a load of cash into even a discounted 1290 at say £15k for leccys to play up and no dealers to sort it.

[Skub]

The warranty is a big thing too, you aren't gonna wanna sink a load of cash into even a discounted 1290 at say £15k for leccys to play up and no dealers to sort it.

Not even for half that 15k. You'd need to want one bad to take a chance.

[mangocrazy]

The one I really fancied was the Duke 890 R, but I think they cleared the last of those out a year or so ago, or at least before the current shenanigans surfaced. But unless there's someone to provide a warranty, who on earth will take a punt? I didn't have cause to use the warranty on my 690 Duke R, but it was the subject of a couple of recalls, which were handled swiftly and painlessly.

[Wossname]

……
The warranties have always been famously bad. One additional reason for the downfall.

Not true in my experience - 2 X SDGTs, 50k miles (so far).

I’ve needed the warranty on a few occasions and there’s been no quibble, from the dealer or KTM.

I agree, the future is uncertain. The end of KTM would be a disaster in a wider motorcycling context, and a big problem for e.g. me, as nobody else makes a bike that I want, and I just love the thing.

So please stop with the negative waves (c Donald Sutherland). It’s upsetting me…

[MingtheMerciless]

OK Oddball!

[mboy]

Not true in my experience - 2 X SDGTs, 50k miles (so far).

I’ve needed the warranty on a few occasions and there’s been no quibble, from the dealer or KTM.

I agree, the future is uncertain. The end of KTM would be a disaster in a wider motorcycling context, and a big problem for e.g. me, as nobody else makes a bike that I want, and I just love the thing.

So please stop with the negative waves (c Donald Sutherland). It’s upsetting me…

I've always said that owning a KTM from new is a test of your choice of dealership, rather more than a test of the brand itself... Sadly, there have been some woeful KTM dealers here in the UK, but also a handful of very good ones. Choosing wisely has been the key!

On my 3rd 1290 engined bike here, has to use the warranty a bit on my 2019 Superduke GT cos of leccy problems, fortunately been a bit more lucky with both 1290 Super Adventures so far... Not wishing to tempt fate obviously (so typing this with fingers crossed!) but only had course to use the warranty once in 10k miles on my last bike (for some flaky paint on the clutch reservoir so not exactly a biggie) and haven't needed to use the warranty yet on my current bike (again in 10k miles)...

I do have just shy of 3yrs warranty left on my current bike which will be disappointing if that disappears, but there is a wealth of knowledge out there when it comes to keeping these bikes going, all of the consumables are pretty readily available from 3rd party suppliers already (HiFlo, Mann, Brembo, DID, JT etc...) and cover a wealth of bikes on the road already (anything with an LC8 engine from the first 950's to current 1390's pretty much)... You just need to look at how many KTM's are on the road currently, it surprises me already that there isn't really an independent cottage industry in keeping the things going like there is with older Aprilia's (see Griff and the team @ AP Workshops in Tamworth). It's certainly an opportunity to be taken advantage of as like @Wossname says, I too have ridden all the competition and nobody else makes a bike that I want to buy... The worst of the negative posturing is from the people who'd never have bought a KTM in the first place, so have no idea how exciting and capable machines they typically are. If all I needed was boringly reliable transport, I could buy an NC750 or something else equally as dull too... For me motorcycling needs to be exciting, to put a big grin on my face every time I ride a bike, and KTM's do that in spades for me!

Yes, their directors almost certainly ran the company into the ground because of incompetence and greed, and they should be held accountable. But it's a big company, the designers, the engineers, those building the bikes, those working in the warehouses, the supply chain etc etc... They're the heart of the company and will lose out big time themselves if the company isn't saved in any form, and with it the essence of KTM will likely die! So be rightfully angry and critical of those that have caused the financial downfall, but don't disparage those who made the company the success story it has been and some of the awesome products that they have made during that time, just because a couple of guys at the top couldn't run a pissup in a brewery!

[Bigjawa]

The warranty is a big thing too, you aren't gonna wanna sink a load of cash into even a discounted 1290 at say £15k for leccys to play up and no dealers to sort it.

Not even for half that 15k. You'd need to want one bad to take a chance.

There's no way I'd take one for five grand. I can see breakers buying them for parts.

[Count Steer]

The warranty is a big thing too, you aren't gonna wanna sink a load of cash into even a discounted 1290 at say £15k for leccys to play up and no dealers to sort it.

Not even for half that 15k. You'd need to want one bad to take a chance.

There's no way I'd take one for five grand. I can see breakers buying them for parts.

£5k?! I'd take their hand off at that for a 1290! Heck, I'd buy 2 and keep one for spares.

There's plenty of people out there keeping 'unsupported' bikes going.

[The Spin Doctor]

KTM managed to persuade their creditors - which apparently included 180 banks!!! - to accept 30% of what they were owed. Right now, they haven't secured the cash they need to pay that back in two weeks time.

Pierer are also solidly in the red and have delayed releasing their end-of-year financial report due to KTM's 'restructuring'.

In other news, Harley's sales have tanked and CEO Jochan Zeitz is also stepping down, and they too are deferring their financial statement.

Damon, the electric bike manufacturer which floated on the Nasdaq last year had trading in their shares halted as they'd falled below 1c in value

And Ducati profits have plummeted as their sales have dropped. They too are starting to build up a pile of unsold machines - their financial figures suggest they may be sitting on as many as 10k.

[Wossname]

Lalala….<fingers in ears >

[dern]

KTM managed to persuade their creditors - which apparently included 180 banks!!! - to accept 30% of what they were owed. Right now, they haven't secured the cash they need to pay that back in two weeks time.

Pierer are also solidly in the red and have delayed releasing their end-of-year financial report due to KTM's 'restructuring'.

In other news, Harley's sales have tanked and CEO Jochan Zeitz is also stepping down, and they too are deferring their financial statement.

Damon, the electric bike manufacturer which floated on the Nasdaq last year had trading in their shares halted as they'd falled below 1c in value

And Ducati profits have plummeted as their sales have dropped. They too are starting to build up a pile of unsold machines - their financial figures suggest they may be sitting on as many as 10k.

I don't know what they expected when they started charging stupid pricing for features no one gives a shit about. I understand the march of technological advance but what's the point when you end with something only a few people can afford... it's a crap business model.

The KTM Superduke is a case in point... it's literally just a toy, just a play thing. Yet it costs 18k-19.5k. Read the room KTM.

[Jody]

KTM managed to persuade their creditors - which apparently included 180 banks!!! - to accept 30% of what they were owed. Right now, they haven't secured the cash they need to pay that back in two weeks time.

Pierer are also solidly in the red and have delayed releasing their end-of-year financial report due to KTM's 'restructuring'.

In other news, Harley's sales have tanked and CEO Jochan Zeitz is also stepping down, and they too are deferring their financial statement.

Damon, the electric bike manufacturer which floated on the Nasdaq last year had trading in their shares halted as they'd falled below 1c in value

And Ducati profits have plummeted as their sales have dropped. They too are starting to build up a pile of unsold machines - their financial figures suggest they may be sitting on as many as 10k.

I don't know what they expected when they started charging stupid pricing for features no one gives a shit about. I understand the march of technological advance but what's the point when you end with something only a few people can afford... it's a crap business model.

The KTM Superduke is a case in point... it's literally just a toy, just a play thing. Yet it costs 18k-19.5k. Read the room KTM.

In 2008 the top of the range super Duke was around £7-8k.

Now it's more than £18k.
Who's disposable income has increased by £10 k in the last 17 years?

[Mr. Dazzle]

Who is buying any of these bikes with cash lump sums though?

Yeah OK, all you old lot with no mortgage drawing your 25% tax free pension cash are, but that's not gonna prop up a business.

[Supermofo]

Who is buying any of these bikes with cash lump sums though?

Yeah OK, all you old lot with no mortgage drawing your 25% tax free pension cash are, but that's not gonna prop up a business.

I'm not mortgage free yet or got my pension, but for my age (48) I think I'm one of the odd ones out in buying cars/bikes as opposed to just PCPing them and only worrying about the monthlies.

[ChrisW]

Who is buying any of these bikes with cash lump sums though?

Yeah OK, all you old lot with no mortgage drawing your 25% tax free pension cash are, but that's not gonna prop up a business.

Still pricey if you're not a cash buyer though, right?

I'm a filthy Gen-Xer so don't have much experience with PCP/HP etc. so I had a look. The local KTM dealer is doing the Superduke R at a discounted price of £15,348. On HP with a £1500 deposit that's £285 per month - for five years!

[Count Steer]

Who is buying any of these bikes with cash lump sums though?

Yeah OK, all you old lot with no mortgage drawing your 25% tax free pension cash are, but that's not gonna prop up a business.

Still pricey if you're not a cash buyer though, right?

I'm a filthy Gen-Xer so don't have much experience with PCP/HP etc. so I had a look. The local KTM dealer is doing the Superduke R at a discounted price of £15,348. On HP with a £1500 deposit that's £285 per month - for five years!

It's eye-watering. £18,600 with a value at the end of what? £4k? So another £250/month-ish in depreciation. Effectively £535/month out of the door (+ insurance, tax, servicing, tyres etc).

Factor in SORNing it for 3+ months of the year and that's a fair wedge for a bit of fun on a bike from a manufacturer that may not be here in a few months.