Post Office scandal

[Tarmacsurfer]

I guess a few of you have been following this in the news and watching the (excellent) drama on ITV.

https://news.sky.com/story/mr-bates-vs- ... l-13042137

It really is shocking how the often portrayed 'friendly Post Office' hounded post masters to plead guilty and made them repay tens of thousands of pounds to avoid prison.

I thought what was also interesting and IMO a bit of a whitewash is how the program didn't really cover the Post Office director who first made all the cost savings /redundancies and introduced the Horizon system. Instead focusing on his successor.
Who could suggest that this is because he went on to be a Director at ITV.....
Interesting biography on his Wiki
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Crozier

Specifically 2003 - 2010 and 2010 - 2017

[mangocrazy]

How can someone manage to be Chairman of Whitbread and BT Group at the same time?

If you or I were running two jobs there would be outrage and probably sacking. But in the rarified world these people inhabit it's all perfectly OK.

[Count Steer]

If anyone had ever had the 'pleasure' of meeting the POID/POSIS* they wouldn't be too surprised by events. They were/are? a bunch of thugs and probably said ''We'll deal with it guv'.

*Post Office Investigation Department which mutated into Post Office Security and Investigation Services.

[Cousin Jack]

If anyone had ever had the 'pleasure' of meeting the POID/POSIS* they wouldn't be too surprised by events. They were/are? a bunch of thugs and probably said ''We'll deal with it guv'.

*Post Office Investigation Department which mutated into Post Office Security and Investigation Services.

I have met them, I know several of them personally (or I did a few years back). All they are interested in is their KPI, convictions per kmh. I trust them as far as I can throw a bulldozer.

[David]

This was covered thoroughly by radio 4 over the past few years.

[Greenman]

How can someone manage to be Chairman of Whitbread and BT Group at the same time?

If you or I were running two jobs there would be outrage and probably sacking. But in the rarified world these people inhabit it's all perfectly OK.

As long as you are rich or powerful enough you can do what you want now, rape, pedophilia, not pay tax etc etc etc, i'm not sure why people need to be told this as it's so clear to everyone now, i''m sure others here will disagree, but for me it's there to see in plain sight.

It's why i am so anti-elite, they are turning our world into a complete shit pit and we are the ones who have to live in the shit!

[Tarmacsurfer]

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/ ... of-her-cbe

[Mr. Dazzle]

The thing that seems staggering/daft to me is how far these prosecutions all got.

You implement a new IT system and then all of a sudden you find mass instances of fraud and financial crime. Did no-one ever put two and two together, or is there such a pre-existing culture of crime in the RM nobody was surprised or what?

[Taipan]

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/ ... of-her-cbe

What a dreadful thing that these innocent people were put through. Its staggering that the red flags were ignored on her watch and the people continued to suffer. If she had any conscience she'd hand it back, but of she won't then yes strip her of it!

[Mr. Dazzle]

I've read that petition - I still can't work out what 38 Degrees are actually doing to do. "Campaign" apparently.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Pretty sure there was like this famous story about a rich guy who screwed the little guy all the time, visited by three ghosts or some shit, it took place around about this time of year This sort of thing was common enough for stories to be commenting on it 150 years ago. The chap who wrote it did a few tales on this theme.

Scrooges aren't a new thing.

[Mussels]

I think it's about time to put investigators on trial for perjury when they deliberately ignore evidence they don't like.
This includes police detectives who ignore and hide evidence that shows the person they are trying to fit up is likely not guilty.

[mangocrazy]

The thing that seems staggering/daft to me is how far these prosecutions all got.

You implement a new IT system and then all of a sudden you find mass instances of fraud and financial crime. Did no-one ever put two and two together, or is there such a pre-existing culture of crime in the RM nobody was surprised or what?

It was one of those IT infrastructure projects that was basically too big to fail. The PO had spent over £1billion on it (allegedly) and the fact that it essentially wasn't fit for purpose was totally unacceptable to PO top brass. So the cover up continued and the sub-postmasters became the fall guys. The fact that the fiasco kicked off in the late 1990s/very early 2000s meant that t'Internet was not as widely used as it is today and the victims were lied to and told 'it's only happening to you'. That kind of nonsense would be very quickly unmasked these days (one hopes).

[Tarmacsurfer]

What I didn't really understand was why senior managers at the PO were prepared to repeatedly toe the corporate line even when they knew it was causing human suffering.

If it was my own employer I'd first go through corporate channels to report it and then whistle blow if they weren't interested. It seems like a human thing to do.

Reminds me a bit of the Milgram Experiment. We do what we're told...!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

[Mussels]

The thing that seems staggering/daft to me is how far these prosecutions all got.

You implement a new IT system and then all of a sudden you find mass instances of fraud and financial crime. Did no-one ever put two and two together, or is there such a pre-existing culture of crime in the RM nobody was surprised or what?

It was one of those IT infrastructure projects that was basically too big to fail. The PO had spent over £1billion on it (allegedly) and the fact that it essentially wasn't fit for purpose was totally unacceptable to PO top brass. So the cover up continued and the sub-postmasters became the fall guys. The fact that the fiasco kicked off in the late 1990s/very early 2000s meant that t'Internet was not as widely used as it is today and the victims were lied to and told 'it's only happening to you'. That kind of nonsense would be very quickly unmasked these days (one hopes).

The police would abuse bail conditions to prevent that and I suspect the PO investigators would find a similar court restriction. It's all about control to stop the accused finding and proving the truth.

[mangocrazy]

The thing that seems staggering/daft to me is how far these prosecutions all got.

You implement a new IT system and then all of a sudden you find mass instances of fraud and financial crime. Did no-one ever put two and two together, or is there such a pre-existing culture of crime in the RM nobody was surprised or what?

It was one of those IT infrastructure projects that was basically too big to fail. The PO had spent over £1billion on it (allegedly) and the fact that it essentially wasn't fit for purpose was totally unacceptable to PO top brass. So the cover up continued and the sub-postmasters became the fall guys. The fact that the fiasco kicked off in the late 1990s/very early 2000s meant that t'Internet was not as widely used as it is today and the victims were lied to and told 'it's only happening to you'. That kind of nonsense would be very quickly unmasked these days (one hopes).

The police would abuse bail conditions to prevent that and I suspect the PO investigators would find a similar court restriction. It's all about control to stop the accused finding and proving the truth.

Agree, and the PO bully boys did all that kind of stuff. But word gets round so much more quickly with social media etc. that companies find it very hard to keep a lid on that kind of information getting into the public domain. At the very least any action group would get established much quicker these days.

[Count Steer]

The thing that seems staggering/daft to me is how far these prosecutions all got.

You implement a new IT system and then all of a sudden you find mass instances of fraud and financial crime. Did no-one ever put two and two together, or is there such a pre-existing culture of crime in the RM nobody was surprised or what?

Ah but, POID (or whatever they called themselves at the time) would be dripping their poison in the ears of the Directors. 'See, we told you they're all crooks and swindlers. Thank goodness we got the new system and they've finally been outed. Now, about that salary increase for all of us'.

[Cousin Jack]

The POID were hated and feared. Everyone knew that, if they waned you they would find something, probably trivial, but something they could use to convict you of theft. A ballpoint pen would do, in your house or private car, and you were toast. One friend of mine, who was a PITA but honest,was convicted of stealing an out-of-date directory. Many of us would do the same, keeping an old copy at home for the odd occasion we needed to contact someone from home.
A few were OKish, one I know used to arrive with a warrant and a black sack. He would give you 30mins to put anything belonging to your employer in the sack. Tough shit if you didn't find a pen and he did.

[mangocrazy]

Just binge-watched all 4 episodes of Mr Bates vs. the PO, and besides making me really fucking angry, it made me realise that Fujitsu really should also be on the hook for compensating all the out of pocket sub-postmasters (adjusted for inflation and interest rate rises, of course). To my mind an equitable solution would be for Fujitsu and the UK Government (as sole owner of the Post Office) should split the redress/compensation fees on a 50/50 basis.

And do it within the 2024 calendar year, you fuckers.

[mangocrazy]

Coincidental that this should happen only days after the ITV drama was unveiled?


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... ting-fraud