Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

636mick · Post by **636mick** » Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:06 am

Totally agree, EV should be ideal as a tow car. Everyday cars, Mondeo for example, braked trailer max is 750kg, BMW 3 series 1200, Kuga 1200.
Strange, the manufacturers are missing a trick I think.

Post by **MrLongbeard** » Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:17 am

Import a Rivian, it's rated to tow 4900+Kgs

Post by **Mussels** » Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:28 am

Chassis strength and rear axle are factors and I suspect a big reason older 4x4s can tow a lot more than estate car.
My old Jeep and the Jag are the same weight, size, engine power and almost same brakes. The Jag limit is 1,850Kg and the Jeep 3,500Kg

Post by **Cousin Jack** » Tue Oct 31, 2023 12:47 pm

MrLongbeard wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:17 am Import a Rivian, it's rated to tow 4900+Kgs

Supposed to be coming to the UK this year.

Post by **Horse** » Tue Oct 31, 2023 1:50 pm

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 7:44 am
My 'rents have just picked up their electric Mini, which now makes me the only member of my immediate family without an EV.

Remind us which branch of which industry you work in

Post by **Dodgy69** » Tue Oct 31, 2023 1:59 pm

636mick wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:06 am Totally agree, EV should be ideal as a tow car. Everyday cars, Mondeo for example, braked trailer max is 750kg, BMW 3 series 1200, Kuga 1200.
Strange, the manufacturers are missing a trick I think.

Ain't that unbraked. Mondeos can tow caravans a lot more than 750kg.

Post by **Mussels** » Tue Oct 31, 2023 2:10 pm

Horse wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 1:50 pm
Mr. Dazzle wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 7:44 am
My 'rents have just picked up their electric Mini, which now makes me the only member of my immediate family without an EV.
Remind us which branch of which industry you work in

Do as I say, not as I do.

Post by **Pirahna** » Tue Oct 31, 2023 2:12 pm

Copy and paste from https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-rules-f ... utumn-2021

Licences issued before 1 January 1997
You are not affected by the changes if you passed your car driving test before 1 January 1997.

You’re usually allowed to drive a vehicle and trailer combination up to 8,250kg maximum authorised mass (MAM). View your driving licence information to check.

You’re also allowed to drive a minibus with a trailer over 750kg MAM.

MAM is the limit on how much the vehicle can weigh when it’s loaded.

Licences issued from 1 January 1997 to 18 January 2013
If you passed your car driving test from 1 January 1997 to 18 January 2013, you were allowed to drive either of the following:

a car or van up to 3,500kg MAM towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM (up to 4,250kg in total)
a trailer over 750kg MAM, as long as it is no more than the unladen weight of the towing vehicle (up to 3,500kg in total)
You’ve had to pass a car and trailer driving test if you want to tow anything heavier.

Licences issued from 19 January 2013
If you passed your car driving test from 19 January 2013, you were allowed to drive either of the following:

a car or van up to 3,500kg MAM towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM (up to 4,250kg in total)
a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as the combined MAM of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg
You’ve had to pass a car and trailer driving test if you want to tow anything heavier.

What changed on 16 December 2021
If you passed your car driving test from 1 January 1997, you’re now allowed to tow trailers up to 3,500kg MAM.

Check your car’s handbook to find out its gross train weight (GTW). This is the total allowable weight of the car plus the trailer plus the load

Post by **Mr. Dazzle** » Tue Oct 31, 2023 2:18 pm

Horse wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 1:50 pm
Mr. Dazzle wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 7:44 am
My 'rents have just picked up their electric Mini, which now makes me the only member of my immediate family without an EV.
Remind us which branch of which industry you work in

Yeah that was my point

Hoping I'll get an EV on my next iteration on the company scheme, next summer. They change what cars are available every quarter so its a bit of roulette.

My boss had one on the scheme but they bought it back off him to sell to a member of the public. You can't refuse! Luckily he got another one to replace it rather than a squirrel killing V8.

ZRX61 · Post by **ZRX61** » Tue Oct 31, 2023 3:00 pm

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 10:16 am EV's should be ideal for towing - electric powertrains are almost perfect for the application, hence why any kind of industrial draggy-thing is often electric. Trains being the obvious example, even Diesel trains use electric motors for the actual traction.

The Tesla 4x4 for example can tow >2 tonnes. It's the range which takes a spanking when you drag a parachute behind you

I suspect the low published figures are based on what OEMs have bothered to homologate, based on what they expect people to actually do. None of the cars I work on have a towing rating, they wouldn't even if they were ICE, so it's not something I'm exposed to.

Some Ford SuperDuty's can tow about 15 tons.. even the *baby* F150 can tow 7 tons

ZRX61 · Post by **ZRX61** » Tue Oct 31, 2023 3:02 pm

Latest from the WSJ:

https://climatechangedispatch.com/brace ... re-coming/

(CCD link bypasses the WSJ paywall)

Post by **Mr. Dazzle** » Tue Oct 31, 2023 3:05 pm

ZRX61 wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 3:00 pm
Mr. Dazzle wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 10:16 am EV's should be ideal for towing - electric powertrains are almost perfect for the application, hence why any kind of industrial draggy-thing is often electric. Trains being the obvious example, even Diesel trains use electric motors for the actual traction.

The Tesla 4x4 for example can tow >2 tonnes. It's the range which takes a spanking when you drag a parachute behind you

I suspect the low published figures are based on what OEMs have bothered to homologate, based on what they expect people to actually do. None of the cars I work on have a towing rating, they wouldn't even if they were ICE, so it's not something I'm exposed to.
Some Ford SuperDuty's can tow about 15 tons.. even the *baby* F150 can tow 7 tons

No it can't.

8200lb, AKA about four tonnes.

https://www.imlaycityfordsales.com/rese ... 20capacity.

Super duty can do 14000lb/7 tonnes but that's basically a commercial vehicle. As your man says, towing capacity is gonna be massively influenced by the structure of the vehicle, I.e. you have to build the car for it. If you don't expect people to tow 7 tonnes you're just not gonna make the car strong enough, there's no point. Waste of metal.

Post by **Mr. Dazzle** » Tue Oct 31, 2023 3:12 pm

ZRX61 wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 3:02 pm Latest from the WSJ:

https://climatechangedispatch.com/brace ... re-coming/

(CCD link bypasses the WSJ paywall)

The same can’t be said of its electric vehicles, which lost $3.1 billion during the first nine months of this year.

Pfft, amateurs. We've never made a profit in over 10 years of operation.

Post by **Cousin Jack** » Tue Oct 31, 2023 3:17 pm

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 3:12 pm
Pfft, amateurs. We've never made a profit in over 10 years of operation.

Clever accountants?

Post by **Mr. Dazzle** » Tue Oct 31, 2023 3:19 pm

Nah, good old fashioned genuine loss making

We were a start up, acquired by an OEM in 2021. We're actually on track to move to profit ahead of schedule ATM! But yeah, never made a profit.

Didn't stop said OEM paying 8 figures for us

ZRX61 · Post by **ZRX61** » Tue Oct 31, 2023 3:26 pm

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 3:05 pm No it can't.

8200lb, AKA about four tonnes.

https://www.imlaycityfordsales.com/rese ... 20capacity.

Super duty can do 14000lb/7 tonnes but that's basically a commercial vehicle. As your man says, towing capacity is gonna be massively influenced by the structure of the vehicle, I.e. you have to build the car for it. If you don't expect people to tow 7 tonnes you're just not gonna make the car strong enough, there's no point. Waste of metal.

8200lb is the starting point for F150 capacity, not the max:

https://veteransfordtampa.com/ford-f-15 ... g-capacity

Post by **Mr. Dazzle** » Tue Oct 31, 2023 3:31 pm

Yeah exactly, so "the baby" one can't do 7 tonnes...the big daddy one can do 7 tonnes and the baby one can do less than a Rivian electric pick up truck.

Doesn't really matter though, the powertrain isn't what's setting these weights as above. Its' the rest of the vehicle, so the suspension, the chassis/body, tow hook up points etc. No-one is gonna design a car to tow 7 tonnes unless they expect it to be used for that.

For example, the Tesla Cybertruck is gonna have a towing capacity of 7-14,000lb, much like a Ford truck, 'cause they expect it to be used for that sort of duty.

demographic · Post by **demographic** » Tue Oct 31, 2023 7:28 pm

Landrovers are rated to pull a hell of a lot* but I reckon it's more down to the chassis than the engines.
Plus it was kind of in the MODs interests to have em rated high as well.

*Alrhough in most cases not the skin off a rice puddin or the noddy off a soft cock.

ZRX61 · Post by **ZRX61** » Tue Oct 31, 2023 9:15 pm

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 3:31 pm Yeah exactly, so "the baby" one can't do 7 tonnes...the big daddy one can do 7 tonnes and the baby one can do less than a Rivian electric pick up truck.

No, there are no *big daddy* F150's. There are F150's that can tow 7 tons.

The *big daddies* are F250, F350 & F450 Super Duty's
F250: 13,800 to 22,000lbs
F350: 13,800 to 23,900lbs
F450: 25,000 to 30,000lbs (Gooseneck rating on a F450 is 40,000lbs)

I put about 5000lbs of concrete pavers in my F350 & it compressed the suspendies about an inch.

Post by **Mr. Dazzle** » Tue Oct 31, 2023 9:27 pm

Yeah most commercial vehicles can carry a lot of stuff

Tesla don't make those.

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Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

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