Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

General chat topics, anything and everything you want or need to discuss
Treadeager
Posts: 268
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:17 pm
Has thanked: 201 times
Been thanked: 217 times

Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by Treadeager »

Have you never made a mistake or taken a chance then CJ ? 🤔
User avatar
Cousin Jack
Posts: 4475
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:36 pm
Location: Down in the Duchy
Has thanked: 2561 times
Been thanked: 2292 times

Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by Cousin Jack »

Treadeager wrote: Thu Aug 17, 2023 8:03 pm Have you never made a mistake or taken a chance then CJ ? 🤔
I take lots of chances and I have made many mistakes, but I try not to make them doing stuff that has potentially lethal consequences.
I fill my car with petrol, but I don't smoke while doing it.
I recharge my lithium batteries, but only with a specific charger made for those batteries.
Neither precaution is particularly difficult or onerous.
Cornish Tart #1

Remember An Gof!
User avatar
Yorick
Posts: 16756
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:20 pm
Location: Paradise
Has thanked: 10280 times
Been thanked: 6892 times

Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by Yorick »

Cousin Jack wrote: Thu Aug 17, 2023 8:15 pm
Treadeager wrote: Thu Aug 17, 2023 8:03 pm Have you never made a mistake or taken a chance then CJ ? 🤔
I take lots of chances and I have made many mistakes, but I try not to make them doing stuff that has potentially lethal consequences.
I fill my car with petrol, but I don't smoke while doing it.
I recharge my lithium batteries, but only with a specific charger made for those batteries.
Neither precaution is particularly difficult or onerous.
Many years ago in a remote Spanish petrol station, the lad filled the bikes with a fag in his gob.
We watched from about 50 yards away :D
Treadeager
Posts: 268
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:17 pm
Has thanked: 201 times
Been thanked: 217 times

Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by Treadeager »

Cousin Jack wrote: Thu Aug 17, 2023 8:15 pm
Treadeager wrote: Thu Aug 17, 2023 8:03 pm Have you never made a mistake or taken a chance then CJ ? 🤔
I take lots of chances and I have made many mistakes, but I try not to make them doing stuff that has potentially lethal consequences.
I fill my car with petrol, but I don't smoke while doing it.
I recharge my lithium batteries, but only with a specific charger made for those batteries.
Neither precaution is particularly difficult or onerous.
Since no-one can foresee the ultimate outcome of any minor indiscretion ( " the accident pit " ) guess you have had your share of luck too ?
User avatar
Horse
Posts: 11565
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:30 am
Location: Always sunny southern England
Has thanked: 6202 times
Been thanked: 5090 times

Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by Horse »

Treadeager wrote: Thu Aug 17, 2023 8:37 pm] guess you have had your share of luck too ?
http://ukbikecom.blogspot.com/2008/10/s ... u.html?m=1
Even bland can be a type of character :wave:
User avatar
Cousin Jack
Posts: 4475
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:36 pm
Location: Down in the Duchy
Has thanked: 2561 times
Been thanked: 2292 times

Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by Cousin Jack »

Yorick wrote: Thu Aug 17, 2023 8:32 pm Many years ago in a remote Spanish petrol station, the lad filled the bikes with a fag in his gob.
We watched from about 50 yards away :D
Also many years ago, at a big filling station in Cornwall, I watched a bloke filling a bike with a fag in his gob, and it all went pete tong. He dropped the bike, petrol spilt, fag dropped and a river of fire ran under a car nearby. At that stage I left, rather quickly. I didn't read about in the papers, so I guess no one was killed.
Cornish Tart #1

Remember An Gof!
User avatar
Cousin Jack
Posts: 4475
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:36 pm
Location: Down in the Duchy
Has thanked: 2561 times
Been thanked: 2292 times

Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by Cousin Jack »

Treadeager wrote: Thu Aug 17, 2023 8:37 pm
Since no-one can foresee the ultimate outcome of any minor indiscretion ( " the accident pit " ) guess you have had your share of luck too ?
Probably true, but I try to learn from other's mistakes. The more I learn like that the luckier I get.
Cornish Tart #1

Remember An Gof!
User avatar
ZRX61
Posts: 5174
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:05 pm
Location: Solar Blight Valley
Has thanked: 1510 times
Been thanked: 1415 times

Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by ZRX61 »

Potter wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 2:39 am My retirement dream is that my house won't cost me any money now for the next thirty years and I'd like a car that I can buy and know it's going to be good for at least twenty without major capital expense.
Inbuilt obsolescence has made that an impossible pipe dream at this point.
User avatar
Count Steer
Posts: 11839
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:59 pm
Has thanked: 6382 times
Been thanked: 4770 times

Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by Count Steer »

Don't some manufacturers offer a battery lease scheme so they get replaced when they deteriorate past a certain point? (I thought there was definitely a Renault that was sold on that basis, but I vaguely remember it's little more than a savings scheme where you pay according to use/mileage so you're effectively saving for the new batteries. Handy if they fail earlyish).
Doubt is not a pleasant condition.
But certainty is an absurd one
.
Voltaire
User avatar
Horse
Posts: 11565
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:30 am
Location: Always sunny southern England
Has thanked: 6202 times
Been thanked: 5090 times

Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by Horse »

Count Steer wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 7:12 am Don't some manufacturers offer a battery lease scheme so they get replaced when they deteriorate past a certain point? (I thought there was definitely a Renault that was sold on that basis
I know someone who bought a Zoe. He moved offices, the 50 daily commute reduced to 5 and he didn't want to use his Jag.

Had a few issues with the Zoe (the flap over the socket froze shut!) but, overall, was happy.

After a few years there were a couple of issues, he struggled to get a 'qualified' Renault dealer to sort it. So he decided that it had covered its costs, so he would scrap it.

But ...
- The battery would have to be removed
- The battery has to be returned to Renault. In France
- The contract states the he mustn't tamper with the battery, let alone remove it

Eventual solution was to sell it to someone who, apparently, has a warehouse of them. Possibly in Wales, FWIW.
Even bland can be a type of character :wave:
User avatar
Count Steer
Posts: 11839
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:59 pm
Has thanked: 6382 times
Been thanked: 4770 times

Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by Count Steer »

Horse wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 8:19 am
Count Steer wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 7:12 am Don't some manufacturers offer a battery lease scheme so they get replaced when they deteriorate past a certain point? (I thought there was definitely a Renault that was sold on that basis
I know someone who bought a Zoe. He moved offices, the 50 daily commute reduced to 5 and he didn't want to use his Jag.

Had a few issues with the Zoe (the flap over the socket froze shut!) but, overall, was happy.

After a few years there were a couple of issues, he struggled to get a 'qualified' Renault dealer to sort it. So he decided that it had covered its costs, so he would scrap it.

But ...
- The battery would have to be removed
- The battery has to be returned to Renault. In France
- The contract states the he mustn't tamper with the battery, let alone remove it

Eventual solution was to sell it to someone who, apparently, has a warehouse of them. Possibly in Wales, FWIW.
It should have been a simple exercise this scheme has recycling points for Renault all over the country.

https://www.cartakeback.com/official-ca ... p-renault/

Biggest issue is putting cars out there that dealers can't repair!
Doubt is not a pleasant condition.
But certainty is an absurd one
.
Voltaire
Mr. Dazzle
Posts: 13979
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:57 pm
Location: Milton Keynes
Has thanked: 2554 times
Been thanked: 6262 times

Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by Mr. Dazzle »

ZRX61 wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 6:36 am
Potter wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 2:39 am My retirement dream is that my house won't cost me any money now for the next thirty years and I'd like a car that I can buy and know it's going to be good for at least twenty without major capital expense.
Inbuilt obsolescence has made that an impossible pipe dream at this point.
We assume lifespans >20 years in the EVs we build. Not gonna tell you the figures of course but the cars are built for (multi) 6 figure milage and several decades.

The electric drive train is basically a non service item cause there's nothing really to service.
Mr. Dazzle
Posts: 13979
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:57 pm
Location: Milton Keynes
Has thanked: 2554 times
Been thanked: 6262 times

Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by Mr. Dazzle »

Well the only new bit is the battery and motor...both of which are notionally fit and forget. The only way you're really gonna service either is by sending it back to the factory, give or take.

I'm actually involved right now with the reliability and life elements of the design of our motors. It's really interesting to me cause I've worked my whole career in high performance stuff, motorsport, supercars, aerospace and stuff like that. This is actually the first time I've worked in slightly more mundane things. The life department at my current place is bigger than all of Ferrari for example.

So yeah, they put alot into it!
User avatar
Horse
Posts: 11565
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:30 am
Location: Always sunny southern England
Has thanked: 6202 times
Been thanked: 5090 times

Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by Horse »

Count Steer wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 8:25 am
Horse wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 8:19 am
Count Steer wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 7:12 am Don't some manufacturers offer a battery lease scheme so they get replaced when they deteriorate past a certain point? (I thought there was definitely a Renault that was sold on that basis
Eventual solution was to sell it to someone who, apparently, has a warehouse of them. Possibly in Wales, FWIW.
It should have been a simple exercise this scheme has recycling points for Renault all over the country.

https://www.cartakeback.com/official-ca ... p-renault/
No idea. AFAIK he spent a considerable amount of time/effort with Renault.
Biggest issue is putting cars out there that dealers can't repair!
Don't get me started ...

We've just changed Filly's 4 year old, 20,000 mile, car because a dealer couldn't find a fault. It would just switch off, completely, at random times. Including when a mechanic was driving it through a busy roundabout.
Even bland can be a type of character :wave:
roadster
Posts: 162
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2023 9:05 am
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 147 times

Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by roadster »

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 9:05 am
We assume lifespans >20 years in the EVs we build. Not gonna tell you the figures of course but the cars are built for (multi) 6 figure milage and several decades.

The electric drive train is basically a non service item cause there's nothing really to service.
In theory cars could be like the everlasting broom which has a new handle every five years and a new brush head every two years.
i.e.
batteries wear out
brakes wear out
suspension wears out
electronic control components fail and units have to be swapped out
driveshaft wear out
wheel bearings wear out
... and so on.

All serviceable items but the reality has not changed and relatively few cars will survive. And this is all on the assumption that technology will reach a static condition even though we are in a state of constant change ( technical, political, and economic ) at the moment.
User avatar
ZRX61
Posts: 5174
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:05 pm
Location: Solar Blight Valley
Has thanked: 1510 times
Been thanked: 1415 times

Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by ZRX61 »

Count Steer wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 8:25 am Biggest issue is putting cars out there that dealers can't repair!
One big issue is building cars they can't sell. Ford are building 3x as many E Mach's as they are selling. & they're losing their arse on the ones they do sell
User avatar
ZRX61
Posts: 5174
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:05 pm
Location: Solar Blight Valley
Has thanked: 1510 times
Been thanked: 1415 times

Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by ZRX61 »

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 9:05 am We assume lifespans >20 years in the EVs we build. Not gonna tell you the figures of course but the cars are built for (multi) 6 figure milage and several decades.

The electric drive train is basically a non service item cause there's nothing really to service.
That ain't gonna work with Tesla. The build quality is somewhere between Yugo & Trabant. Also: multi 6 figure milage and several decades?? On UK roads? with salt etc every winter?
Mr. Dazzle
Posts: 13979
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:57 pm
Location: Milton Keynes
Has thanked: 2554 times
Been thanked: 6262 times

Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by Mr. Dazzle »

Pfft, UK doesn't even appear on the spectrum. We have neither the fastest roads (Germany, natch) nor the most hilly, bumpiest, coldest, hotest etc. Just like the rest of the UK Environment our roads (and drivers!) are distinctly average :lol:
User avatar
ZRX61
Posts: 5174
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:05 pm
Location: Solar Blight Valley
Has thanked: 1510 times
Been thanked: 1415 times

Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by ZRX61 »

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 5:21 pm Pfft, UK doesn't even appear on the spectrum. We have neither the fastest roads (Germany, natch) nor the most hilly, bumpiest, coldest, hotest etc. Just like the rest of the UK Environment our roads (and drivers!) are distinctly average :lol:
Around here we don't need signs telling us we're now entering a different county. When leaving LA County & going to San Bernadino, Orange, Kern, Ventura or Riverside counties you can tell by the immediate improvement in road surface. There are obvious lines across the road going from decrepit asphalt to new stuff. Coming back into LA County you can tell by the thump from the suspension. I don't recall that in the UK?
Entering Orange county is like someone turned the lights on. All the roads are better & the sides of the Freeway have more/better greenery, buildings are newer/cleaner, everything is visibly brighter. Coming back into LA County from Orange County is like entering the Dark Ages. The difference is quite startling.
LA county apparently has enough asphalt to built speed bumps all over the place, but not enough to fill the potholes.
No salt though.
Mussels
Posts: 4446
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:02 pm
Has thanked: 839 times
Been thanked: 1242 times

Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

Post by Mussels »

This 20 year EV lifespan, are batteries designated as consumable items?