This trend for massive bikes

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Like I said though, the fella in the shop said he's mainly selling them to blokes that clearly can't manage them very well because they can't get both feet on the floor properly, but they're buying them anyway.

There is a video on Youtube comparing an old Adv bike with a modern one, I think they're Africa Twins, and he says that the modern one is miles better on the road, you're perched up high and the suspension makes any road surface feel super smooth, but the older one is better on slow off-road stuff because it's lower and more manageable.

There's nothing manageable about the old 750 Africa Twin, they were top heavy with a wide seat that made reaching the ground difficult for my little legs, a bloody monstrosity that I'm glad I test rode before I bought it.

[Bustaspoke]

There's nothing manageable about the old 750 Africa Twin, they were top heavy with a wide seat that made reaching the ground difficult for my little legs, a bloody monstrosity that I'm glad I test rode before I bought it.

Good to see I'm not the only one who thought that they were a bit of a barge
The V Twin Transalps are a case in point.Some people preffered the Gen 1 version because it weighed less,so I've just looked up the specs for the 3 different generations of Transalp
Gen 1 XL600 Dry weight 183KG
Gen 2 XL650 Dry weight 191KG
Gen 3 XL700 Dry weight 214KG

I suspect it's the same scenario with different generations of Goldwing/Hyabussa/GS BMW etc.
I'm sure if there's a exception then someone will point it out

[gremlin]

It speaks volumes that Triumph do a 'Low' version of the Tiger.

[dern]

There's nothing manageable about the old 750 Africa Twin, they were top heavy with a wide seat that made reaching the ground difficult for my little legs, a bloody monstrosity that I'm glad I test rode before I bought it.

Good to see I'm not the only one who thought that they were a bit of a barge
The V Twin Transalps are a case in point.Some people preffered the Gen 1 version because it weighed less,so I've just looked up the specs for the 3 different generations of Transalp
Gen 1 XL600 Dry weight 183KG
Gen 2 XL650 Dry weight 191KG
Gen 3 XL700 Dry weight 214KG

I suspect it's the same scenario with different generations of Goldwing/Hyabussa/GS BMW etc.
I'm sure if there's a exception then someone will point it out

I did google a hayabusa just out of interest and by christ it's a lump.

[ChrisW]

I did google a hayabusa just out of interest and by christ it's a lump.

Made me curious so I looked it up...50kg more than the first gen!

[mangocrazy]

Weight is the enemy. It's the enemy of engine performance, brake performance, handling and general pushing and parking. And generally speaking weight and size go hand in hand; the bigger and more unwieldy the bike, the heavier it's likely to be (and vice versa). Manufacturers know how to build light bikes, they've spent vast amounts of time and money on stuff like finite element analysis to only make things as bulky/heavy as they need to be, so why do we still have horribly overweight barges? They're charging premium prices, so the punter should be getting value (as in less weight) for his or ger cash.

[dern]

"horribly overweight barges"

There's only about 30Kg between a litre sports bike and a adv bike to put it in perspective. They're light as a feather compared to the cruisers. Maybe the height of them is intimidating for a smaller rider

Also you have the choice to buy a big or a small bike so it seems like a weird thing to complain about.

[Bustaspoke]

"horribly overweight barges"

Also you have the choice to buy a big or a small bike so it seems like a weird thing to complain about.

The point I was trying to make with those Transalps is that even the 'middleweight' model bikes got heavier as they evolved.
In my mind a motorcycle design should get lighter as it evolves.
Regarding that comment about a Triumph Tiger,one of my mates had the XC version & sold it because he thought it was a top heavy lump.He now runs a BMW GS,he says that the Boxer engine keeps the weight low,it's still heavy when he's manouvering it out of the garage though!

[dern]

"horribly overweight barges"

Also you have the choice to buy a big or a small bike so it seems like a weird thing to complain about.

The point I was trying to make with those Transalps is that even the 'middleweight' model bikes got heavier as they evolved.
In my mind a motorcycle design should get lighter as it evolves.
Regarding that comment about a Triumph Tiger,one of my mates had the XC version & sold it because he thought it was a top heavy lump.He now runs a BMW GS,he says that the Boxer engine keeps the weight low,it's still heavy when he's manouvering it out of the garage though!

I think most consumers would prefer more shit than the same shit but lighter. I looked at a tiger and it felt really top heavy and had a gs which was massive... both way worse than my 1190. It begs the question as to why he bought either though. The manufacturers will only make what sells after all.

For bmw to make a gs lighter they will have to spend an awful lot of money on the engine and drive train weight. If they did and upped the price it's unlikely that they sell as many. They would do it though if people stopped buying the gs because it was too heavy but they don't.

[mangocrazy]

"horribly overweight barges"

There's only about 30Kg between a litre sports bike and a adv bike to put it in perspective. They're light as a feather compared to the cruisers. Maybe the height of them is intimidating for a smaller rider

Also you have the choice to buy a big or a small bike so it seems like a weird thing to complain about.

Just checked the difference in kerb weight between a Panigale V4 and a Mutleystrada V4. Panigale is 193kg, Mutleystrada is 240kg, so closer to 50kg difference. And the weight will be carried a lot higher on the ADV bike.

[Count Steer]

"horribly overweight barges"

Also you have the choice to buy a big or a small bike so it seems like a weird thing to complain about.

The point I was trying to make with those Transalps is that even the 'middleweight' model bikes got heavier as they evolved.
In my mind a motorcycle design should get lighter as it evolves.
Regarding that comment about a Triumph Tiger,one of my mates had the XC version & sold it because he thought it was a top heavy lump.He now runs a BMW GS,he says that the Boxer engine keeps the weight low,it's still heavy when he's manouvering it out of the garage though!

In some ways they have got lighter...but they've got bigger and have had stuff added.

IIRC, when they moved from the R1150GS to the R1200 they shed a lot of kgs. (Didn't make the bike better though ).

I think old bikes used to be smaller but quite 'dense'...most of the materials were heavier. Chromed steel bars, heavier wheels, frames etc. I don't remember thinking 'Gosh! This is light' when I was heaving bikes around in previous decades.

PS If people don't like bike bikes, other choices are available.

[dern]

"horribly overweight barges"

There's only about 30Kg between a litre sports bike and a adv bike to put it in perspective. They're light as a feather compared to the cruisers. Maybe the height of them is intimidating for a smaller rider

Also you have the choice to buy a big or a small bike so it seems like a weird thing to complain about.

Just checked the difference in kerb weight between a Panigale V4 and a Mutleystrada V4. Panigale is 193kg, Mutleystrada is 240kg, so closer to 50kg difference. And the weight will be carried a lot higher on the ADV bike.

They're not all that much difference though. A panigale is a light bike for homologation purposes I imagine and for whatever reason Ducati made the mutley a right heffa. You wouldn't want to push either very far though

[mangocrazy]

I can tell the difference in quoted dry weight between my Falco (190kg) and my VFR (204kg) and that's only 14kg. 47kg is most definitely 'not all that much difference'. And I'm fairly sure that the Mutley is one of the lighter ADV styled bikes around.

If you want an example of what a manufacturer can do when they put their mind to it, check out the MV Agusta 800 Turismo Veloce - 204kg wet weight meets 110bhp. Now that is bang on the money as far as I'm concerned.

[dern]

I can tell the difference in quoted dry weight between my Falco (190kg) and my VFR (204kg) and that's only 14kg. 47kg is most definitely 'not all that much difference'. And I'm fairly sure that the Mutley is one of the lighter ADV styled bikes around.

Sorry, I didn't mean that... I meant that the difference between sports bike and advs isn't always that much, not that that much "wasn't that much"

[Bigjawa]

The V Twin Transalps are a case in point.Some people preffered the Gen 1 version because it weighed less,so I've just looked up the specs for the 3 different generations of Transalp
Gen 1 XL600 Dry weight 183KG
Gen 2 XL650 Dry weight 191KG
Gen 3 XL700 Dry weight 214KG

I suspect it's the same scenario with different generations of Goldwing/Hyabussa/GS BMW etc.
I'm sure if there's a exception then someone will point it out

I've ridden all three and the first one was the better bike, it just felt "right" Gen 2 was OK, but the late ones were horrible.

"horribly overweight barges"

Also you have the choice to buy a big or a small bike so it seems like a weird thing to complain about.

The point I was trying to make with those Transalps is that even the 'middleweight' model bikes got heavier as they evolved.
In my mind a motorcycle design should get lighter as it evolves.
Regarding that comment about a Triumph Tiger,one of my mates had the XC version & sold it because he thought it was a top heavy lump.He now runs a BMW GS,he says that the Boxer engine keeps the weight low,it's still heavy when he's manouvering it out of the garage though!

In some ways they have got lighter...but they've got bigger and have had stuff added.

IIRC, when they moved from the R1150GS to the R1200 they shed a lot of kgs. (Didn't make the bike better though ).

I think old bikes used to be smaller but quite 'dense'...most of the materials were heavier. Chromed steel bars, heavier wheels, frames etc. I don't remember thinking 'Gosh! This is light' when I was heaving bikes around in previous decades.

PS If people don't like bike bikes, other choices are available.

Boxer GS's will always be heavy because of the sheer weight of the shaft and paralever. Also the spoked wheels weigh a hell of a lot more than cast ones.

[Bustaspoke]

I It begs the question as to why he bought either though.

Those of us who know him have often questioned his buying decisions ...

[Count Steer]

Boxer GS's will always be heavy because of the sheer weight of the shaft and paralever. Also the spoked wheels weigh a hell of a lot more than cast ones.

True. IIRC they shed about 25kg from the 1150 to the 1200. I suppose they could lose a bit more but, why bother? It's never going to be a featherweight. (I much preferred the 1150 to the 1200 anyway. The 1200 engine suited other bikes in the range but the 1150 was in the old version....the bike looked better too - in yellow ).

I did find the 1150GSA just a tad too much though.

[The Spin Doctor]

There's another aspect to this mahoosive bike thing that hasn't really been touched upon, and that's the way that the bar width has increased significantly with ADV style bikes.

Leverage. When you've got a lot of mass to roll off the vertical, you need a big lever.

[mangocrazy]

There's another aspect to this mahoosive bike thing that hasn't really been touched upon, and that's the way that the bar width has increased significantly with ADV style bikes.

Leverage. When you've got a lot of mass to roll off the vertical, you need a big lever.

Yeah, I get that but when something like a featherweight (150kg) KTM Duke 690 has a bar width of 825 - 850mm you wonder what is going on. All it does is make the whole plot a bit twitchy and unstable when unwanted inputs are fed into the bars. It took me a while to get used to being a fair bit more gentle with my bar inputs compared to a sports bike.

[Dodgy69]

I'm no monster man and I find the 1200 gs easy to ride. The adv version is taller and that's the big issue. As long as you've got plenty of foot down both sides your good.

Getting mine out of the garage and turning lock to lock on the drive is easy enough, but that's smooth tarmac. Gravel would be different. However, when I move the MT about, it feels so light in comparison.

An old mate of mine had a 1200 explorer, he couldn't get it on the centre stand, that tells me the bike's too heavy for him. He dropped it once, took 3 of us to pick it up.