Taff wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:03 am
I was thinking this yesterday in the honda dealers, I've just starting to look into what I get next to replace the tiger, I only really ride to commute and tend keep my bikes for a very long time. The route to my new job is 20 miles, mostly congested 50mph limit roads with a few miles of dual carriage way.
I've boiled it down to 3 options - Africa Twin DCT (Maybe the AS), NT1100 DCT or x-adv.
The first 2 I recon are bigger than by tiger 800xc which is pretty damned big, and the x-adv sitting by the side of them still appears pretty damned large for what is pretending to be a scooter.
For that journey a CB500X would make more sense, not saying you should buy one (buy the bike you want, not the one that makes sense) but you don't need an 1100 to ride at 50 - 80 mph, a 35bhp bike would easily do this.
yep, I've looked at them but they get ruled out because my left hand is a bit gammy, and if the option to get rid of the clutch is available then DCT / maxi scoot is a good option for me.
believe me, if I was in the market to buy a toy then a Mk1 Tuono would be in the garage already
Bustaspoke wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:01 pm
What's baffled me for the last few years is that whilst the bikes are getting bigger & heavier the owners are getting older & less capable of shoving the things around.Surely there's going to be a tipping point were the bikes are just to heavy for their owners?
Absolutely. I just don't get it. As I get older I'm looking for lighter bikes, not bigger, heavier lumps of metal and plastic.
Taff wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:03 am
... and the x-adv sitting by the side of them still appears pretty damned large for what is pretending to be a scooter.
They are quite large. They also splay your legs when putting feet on the floor. I like them but so too do thieves unfortunately.
yeah, I've seen that in the reviews and when I sat on one a little while ago,I had both feet flat on the ground, compared to the tiger it's all good.
on the theft front, fortunately out here in the sticks it's pretty quiet and work is on a secure site, at the end of the day it'll be insured ............
Couchy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:58 am
Humans are getting taller so bikes need to as well, if you're from previous short stock I can see it is an issue. But ADV bikes have always been massive if you look at something like an 1100GS. It's just now everyone makes an adv bike cos the people buying them can't fit on a sportsbike and tbh on the road there's no advantage to having a sportsbike as 150+hp adv get from a to b quicker
People haven't suddenly become 3 inches taller in the past 20 years.
The big change is that us old farts who could bend themselves in half 20 years ago, can do so no longer, and now crave a bike to ride where the priority is comfort rather than outright top speed and handling.
They're not going to buy an RT or 'Wing because they still have an ego, so the current crop of high-power 'Adventure' bikes suit them well. I'd also say that with growing traffic levels, owning a super-sports bike is becoming an exercise in riding frustration for every day.
Last edited by Rockburner on Wed Nov 30, 2022 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Regarding bikes getting physicaly larger, I blame it on all those LWR wannabies,they created a new market for big ADV bikes & all the manufacturers dived in with big capacity heavy bikes.What's baffled me for the last few years is that whilst the bikes are getting bigger & heavier the owners are getting older & less capable of shoving the things around.Surely there's going to be a tipping point were the bikes are just to heavy for their owners?
Cars have been getting physically larger for years & it's brought home when you see something from the 70's or 80's & it looks like a toy compared to modern cars,but I think a lot of that is to do with crumple zones etc.The issue with the physical size of modern cars is fitting them in parking spaces marked out for older,smaller cars
I dunno if the LWR effect is still going, it was the guts of 20 years ago and a few massive trailies were about before then, the Super Ten 750 was a big lump and it was what, late 80s? a 91 Africa Twin is only 5kgs lighter than a 1200GS. I think LWR sold a lot of bikes, but it was all the crap that bolted to the bikes that appeared overnight on every high street.
BAck in the late 90s, I drove a Granada Scorpio, I was out walking with the first wife when we got a look down on our street from a railway embankment. My Granada was the biggest car in the street. At the last Ford show I went to, I parked my Mk3 Mondeo next to one and it was bigger than the Granada and completly obscured the Capri on the other side. Modern motors are ridiculous now.
Bigjawa wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 2:32 pmMy Granada was the biggest car in the street. At the last Ford show I went to, I parked my Mk3 Mondeo next to one and it was bigger than the Granada and completly obscured the Capri on the other side. Modern motors are ridiculous now.
One of the reasons for the steroidal growth of cars is because it's much easier to make a larger car NCAP compliant than a smaller one. Plus, of course people are getting bigger/fatter as the years go by.
Not sure either of those reasons translated to bikes getting bigger though. Better suspension with heavier springs, yes but bigger, taller, wider, heavier bikes? Not so sure about that.
Rockburner wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 2:11 pm
They're not going to buy an RT or 'Wing because they still have an ego, so the current crop of high-power 'Adventure' bikes suit them well. I'd also say that with growing traffic levels, owning a super-sports bike is becoming an exercise in riding frustration for every day.
Taking my K12R the 16 miles to work is frustrating, the amount of traffic makes it a total pain in the hole, my evening commute is after rush hour so you can get it off the leash, I'd hate to be doing the same ride on something like an R6.
mangocrazy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:57 am
There's another aspect to this mahoosive bike thing that hasn't really been touched upon, and that's the way that the bar width has increased significantly with ADV style bikes. I mentioned this earlier with regards to accessibility in tight spaces, but it also impacts on riding comfort (for me, anyway). If you're a big fella with broad shoulders then you will actually need a bike with wider bars in order to feel comfortable whereas the slim Jims like me, at least across the shoulders (ahem), will prefer bars with grips that are not so widely spaced. We all have an area where the arm is most comfortable over long periods and that tends to be in the arm's central resting position.
My beef is that big ADV bikes all have bar widths that I find uncomfortable. This is doubtless aggravated by age, but I even found that the OE bars on my Duke 690 were uncomfortably wide (and awkwardly angled to boot) and gave me pain in my shoulders, wrists and elbows. A change of bars to a narrower set with subtly altered bar angles cured this completely.
Has no-one else found that the wider bars on ADV bikes can give rise to discomfort, or am I alone in this?
Off road bikes do ten do have wider bars, but I always felt BMW went further than most? Even on my F800R I felt the bars were uncomfortably wide? I'm sure on one BMW i had I trimmed an inch of each end?
Taff wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:03 am
I was thinking this yesterday in the honda dealers, I've just starting to look into what I get next to replace the tiger, I only really ride to commute and tend keep my bikes for a very long time. The route to my new job is 20 miles, mostly congested 50mph limit roads with a few miles of dual carriage way.
I've boiled it down to 3 options - Africa Twin DCT (Maybe the AS), NT1100 DCT or x-adv.
The first 2 I recon are bigger than by tiger 800xc which is pretty damned big, and the x-adv sitting by the side of them still appears pretty damned large for what is pretending to be a scooter.
If I was buying something for purely commuting I'd get a maxi scoot. Most stuff is enclosed, auto, heated seats, storage without having to buy stuff.
Supermofo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 3:57 pm
If I was buying something for purely commuting I'd get a maxi scoot. Most stuff is enclosed, auto, heated seats, storage without having to buy stuff.
I just had a look at the Tmax - £12.5k and 220kg!
Blimey, that's proper money and weight, if I was spending that money then I'm sure I could find something more exciting.
Yeah I wasn't thinking a T-Max they are proper spendy.
Bustaspoke wrote: ↑<
Regarding bikes getting physicaly larger, I blame it on all those LWR wannabies,they created a new market for big ADV bikes & all the manufacturers dived in with big capacity heavy bikes.What's baffled me for the last few years is that whilst the bikes are getting bigger & heavier the owners are getting older & less capable of shoving the things around.Surely there's going to be a tipping point were the bikes are just to heavy for their owners?
Cars have been getting physically larger for years & it's brought home when you see something from the 70's or 80's & it looks like a toy compared to modern cars,but I think a lot of that is to do with crumple zones etc.The issue with the physical size of modern cars is fitting them in parking spaces marked out for older,smaller cars
I reached the tipping point literally 2 years ago. VFR was very heavy and top heavy with a full tank. I fell over whilst moving it about and broke my shoulder. Little 500 Honda is lighter and fast enough to cruise at above the legal limit
ZRX61 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:26 am
The ZX11 is big enough, altho I read something recently that it's smaller than the GPz900R. I'm not convinced (didn't look up the specs).
The ZRX1100 and 1200 are noticeably bigger and heavier than the Z1100R that they're trying to look like (but they are nicer to ride)
Getting on a ZRX after decades of Z/KZ/GPz felt no different. Was at home enough to wheelie it past the dealership before the paperwork was finished. It feels a lot like an '83-'85 GPz1100 A model.
My ZRX11 feels like a dirt bike after getting off the ZX11. ZRX has reversed lower bar clamp so the bars are about 3/4in higher & 3/4in further forward & it has rear sets... so the riding position is kinda like a sporty dirtbike that is stupid fast.
wheelnut wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 3:10 pm
It's a similar trend with cars. Compare the new(ish) mini to the old mini.
I followed an mk1 Escort the other week - I was shocked as to how small it was compared to the other cars on the road aroud it.
Good point.
I saw a review of the new 911 Turbo and the bloke said it's the biggest 911 ever made and had to be made bigger to incorporate the crumple zones.
I don't know if that's the same for other cars, it's probably at least part of it, plus all the other tech that has to fit in now.
Side impact protection is a big factor - doors used to be just thick enough to contain the window winder and door latching mechanisms... another factor It's also because people are physically broader and taller and need to be seated further apart, not just for comfort but so you can do stuff like change gear without getting arms tangled up
The Spin Doctor wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:51 am
Side impact protection is a big factor - doors used to be just thick enough to contain the window winder and door latching mechanisms...
And multiple airbags - they need space. Often in the door itself, seatback, along the roof lining, sometimes in the A pillar.
Pillars are thicker (windows bonded to them rather than in rubber strips) and glass is structural
Seats have got bigger and stronger (to support head restraints)
Seatbelts need secure anchor points
'Waistline' is higher
Some cars have retractable pedal boxes - they have to have somewhere to go to
Potter wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:52 pm
Like I said though, the fella in the shop said he's mainly selling them to blokes that clearly can't manage them very well because they can't get both feet on the floor properly, but they're buying them anyway.
My mates 1190 Adv R is MASSIVE. He has the preload wound up, 3 boxes and bags on the crash bars and I can just about get tip toes down and I'm about 5 foot 9. He's offered me a go and I turned it down as I just wouldn't feel comfortable, it also weighs about 260kg and the weight is high so if it went I'm over.
In contrast my other mates 1290 Super Adv has a much lower seat height, smaller wheels, seat in the low position and no jacked up pre load and I can almost flat foot it and would happily ride it.
