One more step...

[Asian Boss]

Don't worry about all that test bollocks just finesse the clutch and gan it up on t'back wheel.

[Horse]

Also note that introduction of HPT was associated with an 11% drop in new driver crashes. So even if 'not better', that's 'not bad'

Did anyone ever check that wasn't simply because of a drop in people taking tests? I can't find the data in a quick look but I know there has been a significant drop in the number of tests conducted.

I wouldn't know where to check, but I think it look at 'cohorts' of new drivers, either 40,000 in total or two lots of 40,000 each.


Edit
Yes I would.

https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov ... w-drivers/

Download and enjoy

Screenshot_20221111-164954_Drive.jpg (252.73 KiB) Viewed 340 times

[Horse]

From another .gov.uk page

Although this element of the test is now considered by most candidates as nothing special, its effect in reducing casualties has been significant. Analysis shows that a statistically significant reduction of 11.3% in accidents on public roads can be attributed to hazard perception testing.

[The Spin Doctor]

All I can say is that before and after the theory test came in I was teaching novice riders. It made bugger-all difference to their ability to see what was about to happen in front of them.

[Horse]

What works on a small bike works for a bigger bike, so don't worry about it. They both have 2 wheels and the same laws of physics apply to them, so what it takes to turn a small bike is the same as a big bike.

You'll be fine

What's different is the rider:bike weight ratio. A little sideways movement of rider mass on a small bike will have more effect than on a bigger bike.

Yeah, true you need more physical input to move a heavier lump, but the same principles apply to all bikes, big or small

Actually I meant the influence that body movement has on steering.

[Horse]

All I can say is that before and after the theory test came in I was teaching novice riders. It made bugger-all difference to their ability to see what was about to happen in front of them.

Shoulda bucked yur ideas up

[westers151]

What's different is the rider:bike weight ratio. A little sideways movement of rider mass on a small bike will have more effect than on a bigger bike.

Yeah, true you need more physical input to move a heavier lump, but the same principles apply to all bikes, big or small

Actually I meant the influence that body movement has on steering.

In which case I go back to my previous comment - the same technique is required for a small or large bike. Body movement is critical to all bikes, however the amount of movement varies depending on what size/type of bike you ride.

[Horse]

Body movement is critical to all bikes,

Ever ridden one of these:



You're strapped in (2 seatbelts) so no body movement.

No tank to press knees against, no footrests to 'weight'. The only thing left is the bars. So no, body movement is not critical to all bikes.


PS we're going to get told off soon for ruining the thread. Unless Tigs joins in

[Tigs]

Um... I love reading these threads!

I think seeing a hazard is an essential skill - developing emerging - there.. just knowing it is a problem.. but... it is more important to have the skills to avoid them.. knowing you should avoid - and knowing how to avoid without falling over.. different things

I'd rather avoid that 'red thing' ...

I'm looking forward to 'not' falling off ... I've booked a slot for next Friday

[Horse]

Keep us updated

[Horse]

Um... I love reading these threads!

Phew

I think seeing a hazard is an essential skill - developing emerging - there.. just knowing it is a problem.. but... it is more important to have the skills to avoid them.. knowing you should avoid - and knowing how to avoid without falling over.. different things

Yes-ish.

More mental work spotting hazards usually means less physical effort, reactions, evasive control skills, etc.

The mental bit extends, too, beyond just identifying hazards you're heading towards. It's also knowing, then planning and allowing for, what might go wrong.

eg Approaching a bend. Hazard, plan for it, etc etc.

But.

If it's a blind bend, plan and allow for obstructions etc. You might have to stop. Being mentally prepared could substantially reduce your reaction time and improve your response.

[Bigyin]

As another auld fart who never had to do the HPT in order to get a license i only have mock tests to refer to.

I did one a few years ago along with some work colleagues who were all advanced emergency driver trained. We all failed spectacularly as we would click on "potential" hazards before they became "developing" because we, in theory, look further ahead because we are drilled in that way due to needing to spot hazards/change of direction/traffic/junctions at higher speeds instead of the usual simulated 30 mph limit.

For @Tigs enjoy the session next week, apply what you have already done to get to this point and get used to the differences in the bigger bike we have already mentioned in the thread. Listen to the instructor and apply what they are telling you as they will see what you are doing there and then. I will admit i find it a hell of a lot easier to teach someone face to face and fix their little or not so little faults in real life to make it easier for them than type it in detail all the possible options on t'internet whereas others with more/different experience from me will be able to explore the theory and fine detail of specific aspects of riding in more detail.

I had 7 this week go to Mod 1 test after training over the last couple of weeks to move them from 125 to 600. 6 out of the 7 passed with no minors and the 1 who failed admitted it was complacency as he had done the slalom dozens of time with no issues and he didnt "switch on" on the actual test thus making the error that caused the fail. He continued the test and hit the rest of the elements with zero minors ....he's back in next week for a 2nd go

Once you ride 600 a bit you wont want to go back to a 125 as it will feel very small and very light to the touch on any manoeuvres but you can still practise clutch control and the elements on one .....all time with your bum on a bike seat will help

[The Spin Doctor]

All I can say is that before and after the theory test came in I was teaching novice riders. It made bugger-all difference to their ability to see what was about to happen in front of them.

Shoulda bucked yur ideas up

As I'm sure you know, it didn't mean an easier time for me because they'd suddenly developed a sixth sense for hazards like cars in blind spots, or even the really simple stuff like spotting speed limit signs and understanding how to spot a 30 (streetlights) or a higher limit in a streetlit area (repeaters). I just carried on doing exactly what I normally would do to get them to test standard.

I'm sorry, I know TRL did the study but personally and based on my own observations, I find it hard to believe the claimed results, and unlikely that the hazard perception guess test manifestly improved the ability of the average novice driver to spot AND DEAL WITH a threat. If there genuinely WAS an 11% drop, I would be looking for other causes.

[The Spin Doctor]

Yeah, true you need more physical input to move a heavier lump, but the same principles apply to all bikes, big or small

Actually I meant the influence that body movement has on steering.

In which case I go back to my previous comment - the same technique is required for a small or large bike. Body movement is critical to all bikes, however the amount of movement varies depending on what size/type of bike you ride.

Can I just say 'levers'?

"Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world." Archimedes 287-212BC

My very first bike, a CB125S was very wobbly on a windy day. I figured out that it was a combination of me getting blown around on top of the bike and feeding that into the wide and high bars. I replaced them with narrower flat bars from a CB50 moped so that there was less leverage, and that sorted out the stability issues.

[The Spin Doctor]

I'd rather avoid that 'red thing' ...

Would have been great when I was a courier doing winter runs

Especially if it had a heater

[Horse]

If there genuinely WAS an 11% drop, I would be looking for other causes.

I've not looked at any of the data from the .gov link, or read the report.

Let us know what you find.

[Horse]

I'd rather avoid that 'red thing' ...

My mate is about 6' tall, 20 stone, riding a 1000cc Honda Varadero. So not a small combo.

He followed me while I was on/in a C1.

He said that he never saw the front of anyone's face - only the side, as their heads swivelled to WTF? look at the C1

[Horse]

What's different is the rider:bike weight ratio. A little sideways movement of rider mass on a small bike will have more effect than on a bigger bike.

Yeah, true you need more physical input to move a heavier lump, but the same principles apply to all bikes, big or small

Actually I meant the influence that body movement has on steering.

eg:

20221114_090615.jpg (414.96 KiB) Viewed 243 times

Bigger the rider, more effect on combined CoG

[The Spin Doctor]

eg:

20221114_090615.jpg

Bigger the rider, more effect on combined CoG

Just remind me... what makes bikes go round corners?

Isn't it something to do with camber thrust?

And doesn't a tyre that leans more generate more camber thrust?