One more step...

[Tigs]

Theory test - booked - and taken...

I found it hideous - I was really nervous the 'prison like' atmosphere was really intimidating - coat.. bag and phone turned off in a locker..

Look at the camera - sign your life away - body pat down - empty your pockets .. check your ankles (I mean .. I began to wonder if I had actually strapped cheat sheets to my leg and was about to be discovered)..

In to the 50 questions - now somehow I had decided the pass mark was 45.. and I was pretty sure I had 45 correct -but those last 5 were really confusing - Y junction.. threw me - it was all about acute angles/right angles/parallel to minor roads - who knows - ) I decided I'd failed!

Then on to the hazards - well the second hazard finished and I had not clicked once - so again I had failed - and suddenly just chilled...

Finished the test - back through the prison system - waited for my results.. and ... darn it.. I'd passed

Multiple choice 47 out of 50

Hazard perception 59 out of 75

A PASS!!

I'm still slightly stunned - I popped into the training school this afternoon and have enquired about using a big bike and getting Mod1 and 2 done ASAP.

[Horse]

Well done!

Experienced riders struggle with HPT because they click too early, instead of waiting for it to 'develop', make the change from potential to actual danger.

If you can mentally make the change the other way, from actual to potential, it will make life easier.

[Bigyin]

So thats the 2 pre requisite bits of procedure done and tucked away safely, CBT and Theory

Hopefully your school will do a lesson of 2-3 hours to swap you from a 125 to a 600 so you are comfortable with it prior to the actual Mod 1 training. Its all about getting used to the change and increase in weight, height, length, power, speed, bigger turning circle, stiffer clutch lever, sharper throttle response, stronger brakes, more gears.

You have already done most of the manoeuvres for Mod1 already on a 125 for your CBT. You already know to carry out observations before a manoeuvre. You will know how to use the stands and move the bike around by pushing it. You will have done Figure 8, U turns and Riding slowly in a straight line as if in heavy traffic. You will have already done the controlled braking exercise to a fixed point using both brakes and a change down in gear just before the stop. You will already have done an emergency stop, just at slower speed so now its at a higher speed with stronger brakes, more weight and power.

The only parts of the Mod1 that will be brand new to you are the slalom and the avoidance and your instructors will teach you that. The Mod1 is sometimes regarded as the "mind fuck" part of the test as you know how to do it all and have practised it prior to test but its about that 10 minutes or so in the gated compound and getting your head round it.

You will get very used to seeing this picture



The Mod 2 is a road ride. You already did one for your CBT which was about 2 hours long. The Mod 2 test is about 35-40 minutes

Enjoy your training and good luck

[Tigs]

Yeah, the guy at the training center suggested a 5 day course - with lots of practicing on the big bike - so a couple of days acclimatising and practicing the maneuvers - with a little road experience then Mod 1 - then a couple of days of driving the testing routes and Mod 2

He had a calm vibe - and I have heard lots of good things about the school. I have asked to go and do a trial on a couple of bigger bikes .. to see how I manage. I did try on a friends 600 and it was noticeably more top heavy - although it did want to move slowly forward on its own.

I have also being trying to get the u turn on the 125 super tight as apparently i'll make the distance with the bigger bike. I can do a slalom and a figure 8 but need to try the avoidance swerve

[Bigyin]

Yeah, the guy at the training center suggested a 5 day course - with lots of practicing on the big bike - so a couple of days acclimatising and practicing the maneuvers - with a little road experience then Mod 1 - then a couple of days of driving the testing routes and Mod 2

He had a calm vibe - and I have heard lots of good things about the school. I have asked to go and do a trial on a couple of bigger bikes .. to see how I manage. I did try on a friends 600 and it was noticeably more top heavy - although it did want to move slowly forward on its own.

I have also being trying to get the u turn on the 125 super tight as apparently i'll make the distance with the bigger bike. I can do a slalom and a figure 8 but need to try the avoidance swerve

I would suggest dont try and do the U turn as tight as you can on the 125, use the area you are allowed because if you try to use the same technique of a tight turn on the 600 at the start you WILL drop it You will manage it on the bigger bike between the 2 lines and it is possible to turn the 600 tightly but you dont score any extra points and it carries more risk of going wrong....use the allocated room and make it easier for yourself

I do the Mod1 training in a couple of smaller 3-4 hour blocks rather than a couple of full days but each school has their own way that works for them.

[Tigs]

Noted. I just want to pass - I'm not trying to be flashy.. I'm hoping that the bike will go where I look... as long as I remember to 'look with my body' and not just my eyes!

[Horse]

Noted. I just want to pass - I'm not trying to be flashy.. I'm hoping that the bike will go where I look... as long as I remember to 'look with my body' and not just my eyes!

Turn your entire head, the sympathetic advice I used was "look until it hurts"

And, more than 'look' (which is just pointing your eyes in a particular direction), choose where you want to go - look at a particular 'thing', ie a mark on the road.

But - as soon as you're going towards it, look further, choose the next, and next.

Then use that method evermore

[iansoady]

Looking at that diagram makes me pleased I passed my test in the early 1970s when it was just a few turns round the block and a bloke jumping out in front of me waving a clipboard. However it then took me decades to learn things like low speed manoeuvring which all you young folk have to master at an early stage. Fortunately I survived those decades unscathed.....

[Horse]

However it then took me decades to learn things like low speed manoeuvring which all you young folk have to master at an early stage.

Lucky escape?

The DSA introduced Mod 1 knowing that many instructors couldn't train riders for it!

[Horse]

Well done!

Experienced riders struggle with HPT because they click too early, instead of waiting for it to 'develop', make the change from potential to actual danger.

If you can mentally make the change the other way, from actual to potential, it will make life easier.

Surely it's better to test for both potential, and actual?

Yes.




Ok, you probably want more

Years ago, I had a chat with someone who had previously been at Reading Uni when development works was done, asked him the same.

"Too difficult" so they did what was consistently achievable for a test.

Remember that was probably in the early 2000s, technology may have improved!

Also note that introduction of HPT was associated with an 11% drop in new driver crashes. So even if 'not better', that's 'not bad'

[Horse]

The DSA introduced Mod 1 knowing that many instructors couldn't train riders for it!

A search finds

A Review of Motorcycle Training
Sexton, Elliot
PPR306

Surveyed 20 trainers. 4 would not teach countersteering because of safety concerns.


My uninformed guesstimate at the time was:
1/3 no idea
1/3 would have a go, badly, through not understanding
1/3 would be ok

[Tigs]

The counter steering thing made no sense to me at all - when people on here first explained it to me .. I have watched lots of videos and done lots of figure 8's and now feel I've got it. I'm hoping that the same principles work on a big bike and I do not just fall off or over.. I've booked a taster session for a weeks time -so not long till i find out now I guess! The slow moving stuff has made me feel safer in traffic - particularly where i live where it is often congested with a max speed of 20 anyway.

As for the HPT - I felt the test should be click on a potential hazard when you see it - so click on the car rolling forward, the person crossing the road, the swerving bike - because across the test sometimes there were 'hazards' and sometimes they were 'not' - and there appeared no rhyme or reason to it - and some of the scoring was off - so in one scenario - you had to click 'before' you could see the car emerge .. to score 5.. if you clicked as it emerged you scored 4.. so good as I may be 'psychic' I am not

I also clicked too early for lots of them - and trained my self to click 3x for each big hazard and do it slowly (this technique obviously worked).. I do feel bikers should pass theory before being allowed on a road though - and don't really understand why it is the other way round. I also think there should be a cut off - there is some 42 year old man who only passed after 158 attempts and a 34 year old woman who is 'still trying' - currently failed 117 times!

[Noggin]

The counter steering thing made no sense to me at all - when people on here first explained it to me .. I have watched lots of videos and done lots of figure 8's and now feel I've got it. I'm hoping that the same principles work on a big bike and I do not just fall off or over.. I've booked a taster session for a weeks time -so not long till i find out now I guess! The slow moving stuff has made me feel safer in traffic - particularly where i live where it is often congested with a max speed of 20 anyway.

I didn't understand counter steering when it was explained to me. But after riding a bit, I realised I was doing it automatically. You'll probably find that too when things are more relaxed

Don't think about it too much

[Horse]

What works on a small bike works for a bigger bike, so don't worry about it. They both have 2 wheels and the same laws of physics apply to them, so what it takes to turn a small bike is the same as a big bike.

You'll be fine

What's different is the rider:bike weight ratio. A little sideways movement of rider mass on a small bike will have more effect than on a bigger bike.


But, basically: keep the tank gripped with your knees, shoulders relaxed, bend at the elbows, press forward on the side you want to go. Press longer = lean further, press quicker = lean quicker.

For really quick turns - eg swerve - let the bike move (lean) under you. For bends, lean with the bike.

[The Spin Doctor]

Surely it's better to test for both potential, and actual? If you're aware of potential hazards, surely you'll be aware of actual hazards?

The D(V)SA have a hierarchy...

potential - could (but might not) become a hazard
developing - is about to become a hazard
actual - needing intervention NOW!

It's pretty obvious that reacting to actual hazard is often too late - it requires an immediate change of speed or direction.

Spotting a developing hazard means that the intervention can be earlier and milder.

But ideally we'd spot a potential hazard and respond BEFORE we actually need to.

The playground and bouncing ball is a good example.

If we have to hit the brakes to avoid a kiddie chasing a ball, it's an actual hazard
If we slow down because we see the kiddie kicking the ball into the road, that's a developing hazard
If we slow down because we spotted the playground sign, that's a potential hazard.

I have never understood why you're penalised for spotting a potential hazard

[The Spin Doctor]

Remember that was probably in the early 2000s, technology may have improved!

Also note that introduction of HPT was associated with an 11% drop in new driver crashes. So even if 'not better', that's 'not bad'

The old 'filmed' hazards are now CGI so in theory (sic) they could program what they want.

Did anyone ever check that wasn't simply because of a drop in people taking tests? I can't find the data in a quick look but I know there has been a significant drop in the number of tests conducted.

[Asian Boss]

Don't worry about all that test bollocks just finesse the clutch and gan it up on t'back wheel.

[Horse]

Also note that introduction of HPT was associated with an 11% drop in new driver crashes. So even if 'not better', that's 'not bad'

Did anyone ever check that wasn't simply because of a drop in people taking tests? I can't find the data in a quick look but I know there has been a significant drop in the number of tests conducted.

I wouldn't know where to check, but I think it look at 'cohorts' of new drivers, either 40,000 in total or two lots of 40,000 each.


Edit
Yes I would.

https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov ... w-drivers/

Download and enjoy

Screenshot_20221111-164954_Drive.jpg (252.73 KiB) Viewed 638 times

[Horse]

From another .gov.uk page

Although this element of the test is now considered by most candidates as nothing special, its effect in reducing casualties has been significant. Analysis shows that a statistically significant reduction of 11.3% in accidents on public roads can be attributed to hazard perception testing.

[The Spin Doctor]

All I can say is that before and after the theory test came in I was teaching novice riders. It made bugger-all difference to their ability to see what was about to happen in front of them.