Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

[Docca]

Still like my Volvo.

Now we’re in the new house, I’m getting a charger installed ( on the 25th). It’s an EO mini, so tiny. Socketed and untethered, which means no wires dangling from the house.

Octopus GO is 8ppkw ( I think) overnight so that’s going to keep bills down.

[Taipan]

Still like my Volvo.

Now we’re in the new house, I’m getting a charger installed ( on the 25th). It’s an EO mini, so tiny. Socketed and untethered, which means no wires dangling from the house.

Octopus GO is 8ppkw ( I think) overnight so that’s going to keep bills down.

May I ask what it costs to get one installed?

[Dodgy69]

Self charging hybrids is surely the way to go.

[Mussels]

Still like my Volvo.

Now we’re in the new house, I’m getting a charger installed ( on the 25th). It’s an EO mini, so tiny. Socketed and untethered, which means no wires dangling from the house.

Octopus GO is 8ppkw ( I think) overnight so that’s going to keep bills down.

May I ask what it costs to get one installed?

The going rate is one compromising photo of Couchy.

[Slenver]

Just been told a 2.0 Diesel Velar is £585 a year VED/road tax?! If that's true and that's how things are going I think we'll get directed into EV/PHEVs as that buys a fair bit of leccy!

For its first year, yes. It might be higher than that even, depending on engine/year.

After that it's the same for all ICE cars - £165 every year, plus £335 on top for the next 4 years if the list price was over £40k. So, once the car is a year old, the only differentiation is sub or over 40k list price. Then at 5 years old, they're all the same.

[Slenver]

So what about PHEVs and MHEVs,whats the thinking on them?

Two very, very different things.

Mild hybrids (MHEVs) are basically just normal petrol/diesel cars with a bigger alternator and battery. They might be able to regenerate a bit of leccy from braking and they'll use that for the electrics, it's not used to propel them or anything. Saves a few mpg, but they're 'hybrid' in the very loosest sense. More for marketing really so they can stick the words 'Hybrid!' on them.

PHEVs will actually run off a motor like a full electric car, though usually only for something quite paltry like 20 to 40 miles, and the motor will be quite small so it'll be slow without using the engine as well. But... if you only actually do 20 to 40 miles each day, like almost everyone, don't mind going slowly when you do, and want a 'proper' engine for long journeys then they can make an awful lot of sense. But they're much heavier and more expensive as you've got a full engine, plus motor/batteries etc, so if you only do long journeys, or insist on using the engine, then it's just a way of spending as much money as you can

[Mr. Dazzle]

IIRC VED goes up to >£2k for the highest emission brand new cars (in the first year)

[Slenver]

IIRC VED goes up to >£2k for the highest emission brand new cars (in the first year)

£2,365

Full list here.

But then you're looking at high-end stuff that's willfully polluting, like big SUVs and sportscars. You'd have to not think of it as car tax, but more like an extra couple of grand on top of the 80+ you're spending anyway.

Edit: Out of interest, a quick filtered search for new cars on Autotrader shows that the only cars in that category for less than £70k are 5.0l Mustangs and American pick-ups/Jeeps. Basically yank stuff. Plus, weirdly, some cheap South Korean pickups.

[Taipan]

So what about PHEVs and MHEVs,whats the thinking on them?

Two very, very different things.

Mild hybrids (MHEVs) are basically just normal petrol/diesel cars with a bigger alternator and battery. They might be able to regenerate a bit of leccy from braking and they'll use that for the electrics, it's not used to propel them or anything. Saves a few mpg, but they're 'hybrid' in the very loosest sense. More for marketing really so they can stick the words 'Hybrid!' on them.

PHEVs will actually run off a motor like a full electric car, though usually only for something quite paltry like 20 to 40 miles, and the motor will be quite small so it'll be slow without using the engine as well. But... if you only actually do 20 to 40 miles each day, like almost everyone, don't mind going slowly when you do, and want a 'proper' engine for long journeys then they can make an awful lot of sense. But they're much heavier and more expensive as you've got a full engine, plus motor/batteries etc, so if you only do long journeys, or insist on using the engine, then it's just a way of spending as much money as you can

Thanks. I just watched a video where the guy says just that. If you do long distances and the battery runs out they become really uneconomical due to their added weight. Given they (PHEVs) are about £10k more than thier diesel counterparts, that covers the 5 year £585 VED penalty and many tanks of juice. I'm struggling to afford to be green!

[Count Steer]

So what about PHEVs and MHEVs,whats the thinking on them?

PHEVs will actually run off a motor like a full electric car, though usually only for something quite paltry like 20 to 40 miles, and the motor will be quite small so it'll be slow without using the engine as well. But... if you only actually do 20 to 40 miles each day, like almost everyone, don't mind going slowly when you do, and want a 'proper' engine for long journeys then they can make an awful lot of sense. But they're much heavier and more expensive as you've got a full engine, plus motor/batteries etc, so if you only do long journeys, or insist on using the engine, then it's just a way of spending as much money as you can

So you could drive a PHEV and never plug it in? Didn't realise their electric capability was so piffling. Might as well just get a non-plug in HEV?

[Mr. Dazzle]

The latest 48V MHEVs can use their electric motors to provide power, but only as a boost to the engine. I.e. they can't drive on pure EV.

Jaguar and Mercedes both make cars with ~25bhp leccy motors which give you a nudge and also act as starter motor and alternator all in one.

[Slenver]

Thanks. I just watched a video where the guy says just that. If you do long distances and the battery runs out they become really uneconomical due to their added weight. Given they (PHEVs) are about £10k more than thier diesel counterparts, that covers the 5 year £585 VED penalty and many tanks of juice. I'm struggling to afford to be green!

Yeah. But if you DID do lots of smallish journeys like the average commute, then they can be the best of both worlds.

You'd ideally need a low-rate nighttime tariff though and not have electric heating or anything much during the day!

[Mr. Dazzle]

Or live at the top of a massive hill which is served by a hydro powered fernicular.

[Slenver]

So you could drive a PHEV and never plug it in? Didn't realise their electric capability was so piffling. Might as well just get a non-plug in HEV?

You could, yeah. Would be a bit of a waste though.

And yes, a 'normal' hybrid would make much more sense then.

[Slenver]

Or live at the top of a massive hill which is served by a hydro powered fernicular.

In fairness, a bike would work well enough there

[Mr. Dazzle]

Believe it or not, this hypothetical person who lives at the top of a hill is a problem case for EV design. They set off in the morning with a fully charged battery, then drive down the mountain.

Cause their battery is fully charged they can't regen brake, forcing the car to use normal brakes only, which in turn forces you to fit normal sized brakes. If it wasn't for Mr Mountain you could fit smaller ones cause you'd always have regen.

[Count Steer]

So you could drive a PHEV and never plug it in? Didn't realise their electric capability was so piffling. Might as well just get a non-plug in HEV?

You could, yeah. Would be a bit of a waste though.

And yes, a 'normal' hybrid would make much more sense then.

Oh, I was just clarifying. I thought a PHEV was basically an electric car with an on board generator (engine) that extended the range but it still needed charging after x miles.

Struggling to see the point really, unless you have a quite specific usage pattern with few long journeys.

[Slenver]

Interesting. Is there no way to dump electricity? Like, I dunno, start playing really loud music when going down steep hills with a full charge?

Italian cars from the 70s seemed to have no trouble dumping their electricity all over the place.

[Mr. Dazzle]

So you could drive a PHEV and never plug it in? Didn't realise their electric capability was so piffling. Might as well just get a non-plug in HEV?

You could, yeah. Would be a bit of a waste though.

And yes, a 'normal' hybrid would make much more sense then.

Oh, I was just clarifying. I thought a PHEV was basically an electric car with an on board generator (engine) that extended the range but it still needed charging after x miles.

Struggling to see the point really, unless you have a quite specific usage pattern with few long journeys.

It'd be ideal for me. All of my journeys are either <20 miles around MK (electric driving dream city BTW) or long distance to "go somewhere". Assuming I had the right charging tariff it'd make total sense.

At least....it will for a few more years until I can get a 300 mile range EV

Interesting. Is there no way to dump electricity? Like, I dunno, start playing really loud music when going down steep hills with a full charge?

Italian cars from the 70s seemed to have no trouble dumping their electricity all over the place.

It's just a totally different scale of number. Only real solution is a huge bank of resistors and a heat sink. It might sound silly to convert your car's motion to heat, but that's all the brakes do anyway.

[Slenver]

So you could drive a PHEV and never plug it in? Didn't realise their electric capability was so piffling. Might as well just get a non-plug in HEV?

You could, yeah. Would be a bit of a waste though.

And yes, a 'normal' hybrid would make much more sense then.

Oh, I was just clarifying. I thought a PHEV was basically an electric car with an on board generator (engine) that extended the range but it still needed charging after x miles.

Struggling to see the point really, unless you have a quite specific usage pattern with few long journeys.

As far as I understand it, and I might not, PHEVs are basically cars with two powertrains that can be used either separately or together. Together they have their full power and are a bit greener cos some of that energy is from the battery, and separately they either have a little petrol engine or a little motor.

It's all a stopgap really until people stop worrying about battery range and can wean themselves off ICE.

Mind you, there are also slightly different applications of the same formula. The BMW i8, for example. Little 1.5l Mini engine plus motor makes it a little supercar. Or you can drive around using the Mini engine or just motor. Pretty cool really, though nobody bought them.