Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

[Slenver]

I assume you’ve driven a pick up so have lowered your expectation of comfy and can live with 25mpg ? One of our subbies has the new 2.0 wildtrak and that’s the mpg he’s getting with little load in the back.

I'd second this having owned an L200 and Navara (and loaned a Ranger). They fulfill a role and millions of people are perfectly happy with them, but they're compromised compared to a 'proper' car, if that's an issue. The Navara and Mitsi were both pretty agricultural really - rough old engines, poor economy, handled like boats. Plus the Navara chassis nearly snapped in half like they all did and had to be sent to Spain to be bodged better, after we'd already paid for a first bodge ourselves as Nissan refused to bodge it until it had passed its MOT.

In fairness, the Ranger was worlds ahead, but then it was the 3.2 V6, so a very different level of cost. But still very expensive to run.

Also, don't forget commercial insurance, so a bit more expensive and you can't use your 'normal' NCB.

Frankly, I couldn't wait to get rid of the bastards, but clearly if you need to regularly shift a ton of wood then you have a need for such things. I have my old Landy for that and a real car for driving about in

[wheelnut]

Has your load area got to be waterproof and secure ?

I assume you’ve driven a pick up so have lowered your expectation of comfy and can live with 25mpg ? One of our subbies has the new 2.0 wildtrak and that’s the mpg he’s getting with little load in the back.

Would a transit trail crewcab be better ?

I've got a 21 Navara Tekna and it's comfy as any car I've driven and probably more relaxing to drive long distances than the mercedes A250 I had previously. Before the A250 I has an xtrail - the navara interior is pretty much the same. Loads of rear legroom and averages about 31mpg.

Downsides are that it can be a bit tight in smaller car park spaces but that's going to be the same with any commercial vehicle.

I did have misgivings when I bought it, but overall really happy with it.

[Pirahna]

I'm in the market for a new vehicle to replace the VW Kombi. I live a mile up a rutted, rocky gravel track, the Kombi is lowered and needs careful placement in a few spots, it struggles for grip in a few places as well. The new vehicle will be 4x4, seat 4 comfortably (5 at a push) and have decent load space. It'll need to carry anything from a tonne of logs to the weekly shopping, to taking me and my camping stuff on holiday. At the moment I'm struggling to see past a new Ford Ranger Wildcat.

Has your load area got to be waterproof and secure ?

I assume you’ve driven a pick up so have lowered your expectation of comfy and can live with 25mpg ? One of our subbies has the new 2.0 wildtrak and that’s the mpg he’s getting with little load in the back.

Would a transit trail crewcab be better ?

That's very low on fuel consumption, I've seen a mix of figures reported. I've seen a long term The current VW has the 204hp twin turbo engine with a DSG gearbox, driving around I get around 30mpg, I would expect fuel figures to be around the same. Maybe I need to lower my expectations?

I've driven pickups and vans for years and know exactly how comfy they are. The Transit Trail is bigger than I want to go, I could go for another Kombi with a small lift and all terrains, tick the box for rough road suspension would get me where I need to go without going to 4x4.

The current van has to go at some point, I'm in Spain on UK plates and the Spanish police seem to love foreign registered vans. The local Police are fine, it's the Policia National and Guarda Civil that like to follow along or stop for a chat. It's MOT'd until next July, if I can get rid before that I'll be happy.

[Mussels]

If you charge from a 3 pin socket it takes ages just cause 3 pin sockets can only output 3kW. That sets a fairly hard limit on how many miles you can do, simply because you can't fill your car up at more than 3kW. It's like only having a petrol pump with a drinking straw sized hose.

So from that, you can see it wouldn't be too absurd to just tax high power draw. Any charging at more than 3kW must be using a dedicated charger, therefore you can record and tax it. Anything less than 3kW corresponds to low mileage anyway, a bit like how you get a tax free income allowance.

You could of course 'hack' the system by using a non monitoring charger, but that's similar to how you can hack cig duty by buying from the back of a van.

3KW * 24 hours * 3.5 miles per KWh is about 250 miles per day's charging.
That will suit most people most of the time, especially if alternate charging methods are more expensive.

[Horse]

If you charge from a 3 pin socket it takes ages just cause 3 pin sockets can only output 3kW. That sets a fairly hard limit on how many miles you can do, simply because you can't fill your car up at more than 3kW.

3KW * 24 hours * 3.5 miles per KWh is about 250 miles per day's charging.
That will suit most people most of the time,

Although one of the major objections is "But what if there's an emergency and I need a full charge in the middle of the night?"

[Mr. Dazzle]

Didn't think I'd see a "cars charge too quickly" argument for a long time yet.

Maybe that's the price of fast charging...more tax.

[Mussels]

Didn't think I'd see a "cars charge too quickly" argument for a long time yet.

Maybe that's the price of fast charging...more tax.

That's because nobody told me it would cost more, that changes everything.

The same thinking applies to recharging at a service station, if paying £10 extra stops my wife & kids spending £20 in the services then it's worth it, otherwise they can wait.
At the moment charging at the services will cost me £30 before any charging fees are added, Robert Llewellyn never factors costs like that into his videos.

[Horse]

Maybe that's the price of fast charging...more tax.

That's because nobody told me it would cost more, that changes everything.

Funnily enough, there's been research that says exactly that! Despite protestations and demand for fast charging, £bribery changes 'necessary' requirements.

[Couchy]

Didn't think I'd see a "cars charge too quickly" argument for a long time yet.

Maybe that's the price of fast charging...more tax.

That's because nobody told me it would cost more, that changes everything.

The same thinking applies to recharging at a service station, if paying £10 extra stops my wife & kids spending £20 in the services then it's worth it, otherwise they can wait.
At the moment charging at the services will cost me £30 before any charging fees are added, Robert Llewellyn never factors costs like that into his videos.

Seen one of the fast DCchargers at £1.20 a kw, that’s 35p a mile in electric !, or the equivalent of 24mpg in diesel, or more expensive to run than my 3.5V6 Elgrand

[Felix]

This lass has rented petrol cars for longer trips. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-63371759

[Couchy]

It still makes no sense to have an EV and it's probably never going to make financial sense, it's simply that ICE cars will be priced off the road and/or support for them will diminish until they're no longer practical - but I think we're a couple of decades at least from the latter bit.

Dusk is setting in on the golden age of motoring, I expect personal transport to be a thing of the past within a couple of generations.

Totally agree, motoring has been the cheapest it’s ever going to be. When you can/could buy a useable car for a couple of grand and buy fuel relatively cheap those days are going. I think if we fast forward 100 years assuming we haven’t killed us off then personal transport will be a hobby for the rich, lots of people will be back in the cities and when personal transport is needed you’ll call an autonomous vehicle up on an app or similar. There’ll be nothing ICE powered outside museums and prob on a synthetic fuel. I think we’ve been lucky to experience the golden age of the engine but it’ll be a tiny blip in human history.

[Cousin Jack]

It still makes no sense to have an EV and it's probably never going to make financial sense, it's simply that ICE cars will be priced off the road and/or support for them will diminish until they're no longer practical - but I think we're a couple of decades at least from the latter bit.

Dusk is setting in on the golden age of motoring, I expect personal transport to be a thing of the past within a couple of generations.

You are probably right, but it will last my lifetime. I feel sorry for future generations, the freedom to just decide "Fuck it, I will go to xxxxxx this evening and see bbbbbbbb for the weekend" is something I have really enjoyed. No planning necessary, except a phone call to bbbbbbbb to make sure they haven't fucked off too.

Road trips will be of course limited to coach tours. Ugh!

[Count Steer]

I think you're being a bit gloomy about personal transport in the UK. It won't be ICE and it may not be fun but it'll be around for a while yet outside cities.

I wouldn't be surprised if you will be able to go on petrol-head holidays to countries that haven't got a robust national electricity network too. A bit like the train spotters go to India to ride on steam trains.

(I can't see the USA ditching petrol completely for a while either).

[wheelnut]

It still makes no sense to have an EV and it's probably never going to make financial sense, it's simply that ICE cars will be priced off the road and/or support for them will diminish until they're no longer practical - but I think we're a couple of decades at least from the latter bit.

Dusk is setting in on the golden age of motoring, I expect personal transport to be a thing of the past within a couple of generations.

You are probably right, but it will last my lifetime. I feel sorry for future generations, the freedom to just decide "Fuck it, I will go to xxxxxx this evening and see bbbbbbbb for the weekend" is something I have really enjoyed. No planning necessary, except a phone call to bbbbbbbb to make sure they haven't fucked off too.

Road trips will be of course limited to coach tours. Ugh!

I think it will be a long long time before we can be prised out of our personal transport, be it EVs or ICE. It’s just too much of a paradigm shift for us to cope with at the moment.

[Taipan]

So what about PHEVs and MHEVs,whats the thinking on them?

[Taipan]

Just been told a 2.0 Diesel Velar is £585 a year VED/road tax?! If that's true and that's how things are going I think we'll get directed into EV/PHEVs as that buys a fair bit of leccy!

[Mr. Dazzle]

I think it ramps up really feckin quickly after about 200g/km of CO2. My car 2 litre diesel is only ~£180 but its also not a bloody great parachute SUV.

[Count Steer]

So what about PHEVs and MHEVs,whats the thinking on them?

I bought a hybrid. Not a PHEV and I don't think strictly speaking it's a MHEV (it will run on just electric, just engine - 1500cc - or both) it's OK. Averaging 70 mpg, tax and insurance isn't horrendous. £50 to fill it giving an indicated range >500 miles. Pretty boring but it does a job as second car. Happy to do decent distances in it but mainly it's a runabout so the other one doesn't get used for the 'pop to the shops' journeys.

Probably go all electric in 3 or 4 years (but possibly not on the main car, dunno yet).

[Taipan]

I think it ramps up really feckin quickly after about 200g/km of CO2. My car 2 litre diesel is only ~£180 but its also not a bloody great parachute SUV.

Apparently its any car with a purchase price of over £40k that you pay that amount for the first 5 years, then ti drops down to a lot lesser amount.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Oh right...yeah. Not quite 585, it 300 something and then the difference will be the "normal" road tax.