Riding in urban areas and u turning cars

[Deadpool2]

I just read elsewhere about an accident where a rider travelling in the middle of a residential street for taken out by someone u turning a 4x4. Rider hit the nearside front bumper.

So I am guessing that the driver was kerbside and swung out.

I guess the clues may have been turned wheels, but in a world of e cars no exhaust fumes or engine noise, would prevent early indication of a car moving.

What else could the rider have done to avoid the accident?

[Rockburner]

Been aware of cars which have people in,
ridden a bit more slowly,


They noise argument is a bit spurious when it's an urban area, cars aren't that loud and bikes are mostly louder.

Most cars these days also have driving lights so being on the watch for cars with the lights on would be a good idea.

[Count Steer]

Always something to look out for with black cabs, particularly having just picked up a fare. With the narrow turning circle they quite frequently promptly do a u-ey in the road width. My old work colleague stuffed himself and his bike under one.

[Noggin]

They noise argument is a bit spurious when it's an urban area, cars aren't that loud and bikes are mostly louder.

Glad you wrote that!!

I keep reading about how dangerous electric cars are in residential areas because they are so quiet, but where I've seen/heard them, the tyre noise alone isn't much quieter than a 'normal' car, maybe cos they are heavy, so the tyre noise is louder?

Equally, from a bike, the engine noise isn't what you notice, unless it's a performance car with a loud exhaust!!

[MrLongbeard]

Been aware of cars which have people in,

Most cars these days also have driving lights so being on the watch for cars with the lights on would be a good idea.

Good ideas but really only work when approaching from the front.
Most newer cars have rear tinted windows and DRL are only on the front of the car.

[Horse]

RB has it covered well.

If it's possible then, sooner or later, it will happen.

If brake lights are on, then someone is in the driver's seat, ready to go. Especially if you saw them get in and the door close.

Exhaust 'smoke'. Which way are the front wheels pointing?

Position well away. If you have to compromise, slow down.

Can you see through? Is there anyone inside, or visible in the mirrors?


Re EV noise, stand beside a high speed road, much of what you hear is tyre noise.

[Rockburner]

Been aware of cars which have people in,

Most cars these days also have driving lights so being on the watch for cars with the lights on would be a good idea.

Good ideas but really only work when approaching from the front.
Most newer cars have rear tinted windows and DRL are only on the front of the car.

Iirc most vehicles with drl also have tailights on at the same time

[Rockburner]

Exhaust 'smoke'.

Re EV noise, stand beside a high speed road, much of what you hear is tyre noise.

Poor obs, the question is about EVs.

[Bigjawa]

Iirc most vehicles with drl also have tailights on at the same time

Not in my experience, certainly none of our Skoda's with DRL's havent had the tail lights on with DRL's, my MAN truck doesn't,

What really gor my goat was that both the wife's Citigos illuminated the dash lights with the DRL's albeit more dimly than with the headlights on.

Anyway, being an ex courier, I found out that you developed a sixth sense, if a motor suddenly dived to the kerb, there was a fair chance they'll just swing the wheel the other way and head for the opposite one.

[MrLongbeard]

Iirc most vehicles with drl also have tailights on at the same time

Not in mine, during autumn winter I see multiple cars on every commute without their lights because they have DRL's. They think they have because there's a little light out front and their dash is lit up, but nope.

[Horse]

Poor obs, the question is about EVs.

I just read elsewhere about an accident where a rider travelling in the middle of a residential street for taken out by someone u turning a 4x4.

What else could the rider have done to avoid the accident?

How do you know the 4x4 was an EV?

[Trinity765]

I have a west London friend who, in his 60s, was taken out by an ambulance in exactly that scenario. The ambulance was not responding to an emergency. My friend broke his hip and used a zimmer frame for months. I'm pleased to say that he made a full recovery and rode again.

[v8-powered]

Iirc most vehicles with drl also have tailights on at the same time

Think that's a Volvo thing and not the rule - both our Volvo's have had the rear lights also on with the DRL's if left in auto light mode. Not sure why other than to assist the dumb who cant differentiate of a night between DRL's and their headlights being on?

[iansoady]

Sounds as though the OP was from the US (hit the nearside* front bumper) where they have ridiculously wide streets. I can't think of an urban road in my area which would allow a U turn in a 4x4.......


* although is near / off side related to the side of the road we drive / ride on ie nearside in the US would be the RHS?

[Rockburner]

Poor obs, the question is about EVs.

I just read elsewhere about an accident where a rider travelling in the middle of a residential street for taken out by someone u turning a 4x4.

What else could the rider have done to avoid the accident?

How do you know the 4x4 was an EV?

I just read elsewhere about an accident where a rider travelling in the middle of a residential street for taken out by someone u turning a 4x4. Rider hit the nearside front bumper.

So I am guessing that the driver was kerbside and swung out.

I guess the clues may have been turned wheels, but in a world of e cars no exhaust fumes or engine noise, would prevent early indication of a car moving.

What else could the rider have done to avoid the accident?

I was more responding to that bit.

[slowsider]

Sounds as though the OP was from the US (hit the nearside* front bumper) where they have ridiculously wide streets. I can't think of an urban road in my area which would allow a U turn in a 4x4.......


* although is near / off side related to the side of the road we drive / ride on ie nearside in the US would be the RHS?

fender, not bumper then

[Deadpool2]

Its all in the UK and I cant do quotes. Basically a Merc 4x4 which was parked was turning around. Driver was next to the kerbside and basically pulled out and took out the motorcylist. The latter was in the middle of the road as its seems a narrow street with parked vehicles either side. Didn't look good for the riders leg, unfortunately

[The Spin Doctor]

Anyway, being an ex courier, I found out that you developed a sixth sense, if a motor suddenly dived to the kerb, there was a fair chance they'll just swing the wheel the other way and head for the opposite one.

That would be one of my tips. My first London crash back in 78 when I was a courier was an impact with a van that swung left into a side road, and then just as I started to accelerate to pass, swung round and back out again. I'd nearly stopped and lost my balance rather than crashed - there was no damage to the van as my front tyre hit his front wheel, and no damage to the bike either, bar a couple of broken indictors.

So yes, watch for any vehicle that moves tight to the nearside - the driver's making the max space for a U-turn. Don't immediately blast past, but hang back and watch to see what happens.

Also think about the circumstance. Few drivers seem to do what I do when I want to turn round (go round the block) and they'll make U turns all over the place. Parking bays outside local shops are a classic for cars and vans suddenly spinning round. Any residential street is also a good place for a u-turn as drivers want to turn round and go the other way. Watch for people getting into cars. You may not see a running light but you'll often see a brake light come on, then go off - that's the clue the vehicle's gone 'live' and is about to move. And don't forget drivers will pull away from the OFFSIDE too since they'll park facing the wrong way, and that means the mirror view is even more awkward.

Consider the vehicle you're passing. A delivery van won't be stopped for more than a few seconds, and nor will a taxi. Black cabs will often u-turn to pick up a fare on the other side of the road (another lesson I learned with a near-miss) and more recently Ubers need watching - watch out for white or silver Toyota Prius's.

So keep well clear - you'll get the best possible view into vehicles to see if they're occupied, and keep the speed down where there's not much space to open up the view since you won't get much warning.

Anticipate a car will swing into your path, rather than assume the driver will see you. Remember that you may well have appeared from a blind spot - if a car or van is parked in a queue of vehicles, even a careful check of the mirrors may not reveal a bike that hogging the nearside or behind another vehicle - drivers really can look, see nothing, then start turning, and once the vehicle's at a bit of an angle the mirrors are useless anyway.

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And the other hot tip I'd give you is to be very alert filtering past a queue that isn't normally there. Drivers will frequently turn round to take an alternative route when they realise they're about to be held up by roadworks or something. I've heard riders saying "they should be more patient and wait in the queue". OK, so just answer this - why is the rider filtering? Would it be because you don't want to be held up?

[The Spin Doctor]

Sounds as though the OP was from the US (hit the nearside* front bumper) where they have ridiculously wide streets. I can't think of an urban road in my area which would allow a U turn in a 4x4.......


* although is near / off side related to the side of the road we drive / ride on ie nearside in the US would be the RHS?

U turns by the dozen here... usually a five point turn since the road is narrow - with parked vehicles either side, there's only just room for something like a fire engine to get down it.

I assume the car was parked on the 'wrong' side of the road and so swung left first.

[Rockburner]

and nor will a taxi. Black cabs will often u-turn to pick up a fare on the other side of the road

I must be the only biker on the planet who's had a black cab, in London, do this: but then see me, and wave me past in a friendly fashion. (I'd seen him cut left, so was fully expecting the u-turn and had hung back).

Weirdly enough it was opposite the Savoy too - prime u-turn-take-out-the-bike territory. Maybe he'd reached his quota for that day?