Incominnnnnnnng. Sometimes you have to go with your heart... not your head.

[Count Steer]

Exactly! All of that ^^^ As I said it was a general manufaturer rant, inspired by the current discussion. If car makers did that sort of stuff we'd be pretty vociferous. It's not like they can't make them properly it's just about making them cheaply and expecting us to shrug and say 'Well, that's the way things are'.

At the same time, everyone wants a sophisticated, stiff and light aluminium frame, multi mode traction control, quick shifters, ABS (fair enough you don't get a choice), the same level of power they always had but with Euro 5 compliance (again, I know you don't get a choice, huge radial brakes etc. etc. but they don't want to pay any more.

With cars people want (or get anyway) cruise control, flappy paddles, more performance out of less engine, better fuel consumption, low emissions, lane monitoring, heated seats, pollen filters, gps, phone connectivity, keyless ignition, touch close hatch blah blah. They managed to add all that without you having to garage them 3 months a year or mechanics complaining that they self destruct if you wave a spanner at them.

[Skub]

Cars are also built in much bigger numbers than bikes. We pay for the niche privilege in more than one way.

[Count Steer]

Cars are also built in much bigger numbers than bikes. We pay for the niche privilege in more than one way.

BMW sold more bikes in 2020 (Covid and all) than all but one year before. KTM outsold BMW by 40000 bikes. So the more bikes they all make, the poorer the quality of construction?

[Skub]

Cars are also built in much bigger numbers than bikes. We pay for the niche privilege in more than one way.

BMW sold more bikes in 2020 (Covid and all) than all but one year before. KTM outsold BMW by 40000 bikes. So the more bikes they all make, the poorer the quality of construction?

Still small beans compared with car sales.

Bike manufacturers know they sell to a leisure market,they know their products are not essential items,so the buyers let them away with much more. Perversely,it makes some owners more supportive of 'the brand' as they are privy to the faults and poor quality and rename them as 'character'. Makes them feel part of an exclusive club,all in the know.

That would never gain traction in the car world.

[Yorick]

Cars are also built in much bigger numbers than bikes. We pay for the niche privilege in more than one way.

BMW sold more bikes in 2020 (Covid and all) than all but one year before. KTM outsold BMW by 40000 bikes. So the more bikes they all make, the poorer the quality of construction?

Still small beans compared with car sales.

Bike manufacturers know they sell to a leisure market,they know their products are not essential items,so the buyers let them away with much more. Perversely,it makes some owners more supportive of 'the brand' as they are privy to the faults and poor quality and rename them as 'character'. Makes them feel part of an exclusive club,all in the know.

That would never gain traction in the car world.

That only applies to the medium market.
I've bought 8 new sportsbikes and all have been 100%.

I dread when I get too old and need to buy a budget bike

[weeksy]

BMW sold more bikes in 2020 (Covid and all) than all but one year before. KTM outsold BMW by 40000 bikes. So the more bikes they all make, the poorer the quality of construction?

Still small beans compared with car sales.

Bike manufacturers know they sell to a leisure market,they know their products are not essential items,so the buyers let them away with much more. Perversely,it makes some owners more supportive of 'the brand' as they are privy to the faults and poor quality and rename them as 'character'. Makes them feel part of an exclusive club,all in the know.

That would never gain traction in the car world.

That only applies to the medium market.
I've bought 8 new sportsbikes and all have been 100%.

I dread when I get too old and need to buy a budget bike

Depends what you class as 100%. I've seen pics of your bikes before and how often they're cleaned etc.. they're 100% as in reliable maybe, but in my book they're a long way from 100%. You simply cannot make and keep a bike 100% perfect if it's used, it's impossible.

[Scotsrich]

That’s why my bikes only go out on dry days.

I haven’t got the willpower to clean them regularly so I try to keep them that way as long as possible.

I’ve always had to keep them under covers which hasn’t helped but I’ve finally got a shed that I can just wheel the bike in and out of although even that entails doing a 10 point turn in the garden. I’ve always envied people with garages as the more difficult it is to get a bike out or in the less you feel like bothering at all.

I definitely agree that the finish on bikes in general is rubbish tho. My new bike is costing way more than the 6 month old car that I bought but you never think twice about the car sitting outside for years.

Id be quite happy to knock off 500 quids worth of ‘latest upgrades’ to get bolts that don’t rust and paint that doesn’t flake off the engine.

[weeksy]

That’s why my bikes only go out on dry days.

I haven’t got the willpower to clean them regularly so I try to keep them that way as long as possible.

I’ve always had to keep them under covers which hasn’t helped but I’ve finally got a shed that I can just wheel the bike in and out of although even that entails doing a 10 point turn in the garden. I’ve always envied people with garages as the more difficult it is to get a bike out or in the less you feel like bothering at all.

I definitely agree that the finish on bikes in general is rubbish tho. My new bike is costing way more than the 6 month old car that I bought but you never think twice about the car sitting outside for years.

Id be quite happy to knock off 500 quids worth of ‘latest upgrades’ to get bolts that don’t rust and paint that doesn’t flake off the engine.

I guess it's the law of diminishing returns on what people can charge for a bike and what people are prepared to pay. We can sit here and say "use better bolts" but that adds on say £50 to the price. Then we say "use better engine paint" and that adds on another £50... then we keep going with "use better....." and the £8000 bike suddenly turns into a £12000 bike... It's an extreme example i admit, but you get where i'm going.

Just look at the engine bay on a 5 year old car, or the underside... it's far from pristine under there... But because we mostly see the interior, it doesn't much matter what's underneath. I guess that's why we have fancy LCD displays, because that reels people in with "oooooh shiny graphics". Rather than "wow, titanium caliper bolts".

[Count Steer]

Depends what you class as 100%. I've seen pics of your bikes before and how often they're cleaned etc.. they're 100% as in reliable maybe, but in my book they're a long way from 100%. You simply cannot make and keep a bike 100% perfect if it's used, it's impossible.

You can have 1 year or 2 year old bikes that look like 100% perfect 1 or 2 year old bikes but what they don't look like are bikes that just rolled off the production line. That would be an unreasonable expectation unless you either mothballed them or rode them indoors, on carpets. You can have a 50 year old bike that looks 'concours' but that's not the same as looks new. I think your definition of 100% perfect may not be the majority definition.

(If I had my 25k miles car steam cleaned underneath and a good detailing job done on it it would look pretty damn fine for a 25k car and would still come apart if any mechanical work needed doing. Not long ago that probably wouldn't have been the case. They've got better and, in real terms no more expensive. Bikes appear to have, in general, got more reliable but more poorly made).

[weeksy]

I think your definition of 100% perfect may not be the majority definition.

Of that, there's very little doubt.

[Taipan]

So what's your decision? Are you keeping it, or backing it?

[weeksy]

So what's your decision? Are you keeping it, or backing it?

it was never open to debate really matey. Once we had the issues and the offer from the dealer, it was gone.

[Deadpool2]

So what is next?

[weeksy]

viewtopic.php?t=3946

As we discussed last night when you were stealing all my parts

[weeksy]

Well that's the swamp bike collected and never to darken my door again.
Shame it wasn't up to scratch, but hey ho.

[Mr Moofo]

Well that's the swamp bike collected and never to darken my door again.
Shame it wasn't up to scratch, but hey ho.

How you sent the new one back yet ?

[weeksy]

Not yet, but it's not actually here yet.

[Taipan]

Not yet, but it's not actually here yet.

When is it landing?

[weeksy]

Not yet, but it's not actually here yet.

When is it landing?

Thursday. Because i wanted free delivery to use Wigan Yamaha, i had to be at their whim on date of arrival a little. They came in about £300 cheaper than Motts or Blade, but they at first wanted £250 to deliver it, which would have meant i'd use a more local place and drive over with trailer. But once they took the delivery cost off and added on the fitting of the grips, well, it made sense to use them still.

The good news is, if the weatherman is correct it should be dry on Thurs, if a little chilly, but certainly dry enough for me to get out and play.

[matt]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2018-KTM-690 ... 635-2958-0
So it's back on eBay , wonder if they sorted the niggles out?
I doubt it somehow.