Incominnnnnnnng. Sometimes you have to go with your heart... not your head.

[MrLongbeard]

Maybe it's just the nature of the beast with KTM over Japanese bikes.

I reckon so, and it don't help that this one looks like it got put away wet.
It's this kind of stuff that reminds me why I hate buying & selling bikes / cars, you're always going to have that 'what's next to go pear shaped' question on this one, but not guaranteed that the next won't have problems.

I feel for you man.

[Yorick]

How old is this one?

[weeksy]

Maybe it's just the nature of the beast with KTM over Japanese bikes.

I reckon so, and it don't help that this one looks like it got put away wet.
It's this kind of stuff that reminds me why I hate buying & selling bikes / cars, you're always going to have that 'what's next to go pear shaped' question on this one, but not guaranteed that the next won't have problems.

I feel for you man.

Don't feel too bad fella, it's just bike stuff, if we all wake up each day we're winning, the rest is a bonus.

I'm currently leaning towards "come and get it" then making sure I actually go view the potential replacement. But I don't want to completely put it in my mind in case the dealer then doesn't play ball and I'll have got my hopes up.

[weeksy]

How old is this one?

2018 with 5500 miles on it.

[Taipan]

If 99 other people bought that bike, they'd be happy with the purchase, because they wouldn't remove any parts, they wouldn't lay a socket on it. They'd wipe it over with a duster and some Mr Shine one in a while and think it was ace.

Just trying to bring some balance

I absolutely appreciate it. I regret doing that sodding bolt for sure. I never did it on the other 690s, but then again they didn't need it either lol.
The tank panel would have come off sooner or later though for certain.

Don't get me wrong here, the XSR wasn't perfect, I could pick 3 'faults' off the top of my head.

Maybe there's a bit of buyers remorse for it not being as I'd hoped, maybe a replacement would be equally as full of issues, just different ones. Maybe it's just the nature of the beast with KTM over Japanese bikes.

Rusty KTM nail on the head mate. My 690 snapped 1 caliper bolt, an exhaust hanger bracket and had flaking paint on the underside of the frame. The tank panel bolts, once undone, wouldn't go back in and I had to drill the panels holes out so the bolts would reach back in without cross threading due to the angle, iyswim? Looking back my 950SM and LC4 had loads of build quality things that pissed me of too. Jap bikes they aint!

How are you going to get the snapped bolt out of the frame? That could be a real pain to sort?! Tank problem is a bit of a sod too. Was the purchase price low enough to cover getting past these issues? My concern would be more that there is every chance any replacement 690 will still have issues, nature of the beast, and all that.

[Supermofo]

Oh mate, fuggin nightmare

It looks like a bike that's not been used much but not looked after much either. I've seen loads of newish bikes the same, I think for some people it's just a bike, especially if you're pcp'ing it for a year or 2. Looking at things like the ABS ring bolts and some of the other corrosion I wouldn't be happy and you're more anal than me about bike condition. You can sort it out but it's gonna cost time and effort so depends if that's what you wanna do. I reckon to have some of that corrosion it's been used in winter and put away unwashed at times.

1 snapped bolt is unlucky, 2 would get my spidey senses tingling. Having said that I know 1st hand the filter cover bolts are made of cheese.

[Alan PBTD]

Hum.....

It would be very difficult to ''return the bike'' to the dealer and get a refund - of any sorts. Under the ''Sales of Goods Act'' general cleanliness isn't a valid enough reason - ok u got a problem with the fuel tank but still..And Trading Standards will require you give the dealer an opportunity to rectify the main fault - tank and they'll prob do the same as you to fix it. Nuts and bolts corrosion isn't enough reason to decline the bike as it's hardly ''unfit for use''. U ain't going to get much mileage out of ''Not as described''. Pal of mine had a engine let go on his BMW adventure bike ( after 600 miles ) and even with conversations with the CEO BMW Motorrad still took 6 months to sort out - and yes he was still having to pay the PCP finance every month.

These days as so many bikes are sold via the internet ( distance selling ) you do get a ''cooling off period'' but I'd imagine that's expired now. It's very good that they've given you some £'s for the inconvenience anyway - without too much prompting. That's not going to help your case with TS.

On the plus side used bike values are still climbing despite some of the bigger dealerships looking to liquidate some used stock to ade winter cash flow and losses due to COVID..

So, moving forward - If it's got to go :
Look what the current market prices are doing ( u prob know that already ) and retail out of it - ASAP. Like yesterday. We're all in for a really tough Winter / Spring and there are already rumors of a interest rate increase before the ''energy rate cap'' next April makes everything more tit's up. People will have to start saving ( What... ? ) and cutting back so Joe Blogs's missus is gonna say ''Ta F**kin Dar'' to Joe changing his toy bike and she's stressing that they can only spend £500 per child this Christmas instead of the normal £1000 so ''What are the kids going to think'' ? Along with the shelves being completely empty...Sorry I digress but u get my drift.

Bite the bullet and keep it - for the winter at least. And retail out of it in the Spring - but it's a gamble. Could be a big gamble.

Or write off off as a lesson learnt, get it up to your standards, get some toys for it and ride it. U ain't far off now.

Or just chop it in for a 890 R - like I told u to do in the Summer. Race pipe / 3 sets of wheels and book shit loads of TD's.

ATB.

[weeksy]

How are you going to get the snapped bolt out of the frame? That could be a real pain to sort?! Tank problem is a bit of a sod too. Was the purchase price low enough to cover getting past these issues? My concern would be more that there is every chance any replacement 690 will still have issues, nature of the beast, and all that.

Getting the bolt out will take MSG 15 mins. It's in an easily accessible position and soft enough that it'll be an easy drill out and re-tap of the hole for him. If i bought the right bits i'd arguably do myself. But the dealer i bought it from has offered to pay for that work anyway.

These days as so many bikes are sold via the internet ( distance selling ) you do get a ''cooling off period'' but I'd imagine that's expired now. It's very good that they've given you some £'s for the inconvenience anyway - without too much prompting. That's not going to help your case with TS.

I honestly think the dealer will be open to returning it if i went down that road. That does of course remain to be seen in the cold light of day, but currently he seems fine with the idea.

The only question left to answer is what next? It has to be new otherwise you'll find faults with any used bike that's been through a couple of winters - so what new bikes are out there that fit your budget and will light your fire?

LOL there's none. That's the rub and the issue. Unless i go back to a PCP then there really isn't anything that fits the criteria.

[v8-powered]

IMHO you'll also risk these issues with any 2nd hand bike, doubt there are many if any that reach you standards.
If you like the bike, keep it and take satisfaction in that you've put it right and you know its now fundamentally what you want. Other than that it's dig deep and buy new.....

[weeksy]

Looking over the bike this morning it's really very close to 'right. Sure it's been used in winter and still has some slightly inacessible grime you can't get to, but we're talking the smallest amount and only under the tank where it's completely hidden. I know even when i took the tank of the ZX6R that it was horrible under there and that's on a bike i own. So a build up of crap and dirt simply happens. Whether it's used in summer or winter, but obviously with winter dirt it's easier to see.

As we've discussed, there's ALWAYS going to be a bolt here, a bolt there, a fixing, fastening, dirt and lube etc. If we think back, the XSR900 had rusty headers after 400 miles and an oil cooler that looked like it lived in the sea. Looking like the below after even trying to be cleaned by me.



I guess i've been slightly spoiled by 690 ownership having had mine from new before, which has highlighted to me just how clean a clean bike is.. But of course this one isn't a new bike, they don't exist any more... they're not sold new

Looking round this morning, i'd have to get either an extra £700-1000 for a 'nicer' 690, which may not actually end up being nicer of course when we get down to it. Or i'd have to jump to something else entirely. Which i honestly don't think is the right plan. I'd set my plan on the 690 and came back from my ride full of smiles and happiness. Whilst i enjoyed the XSR900, i didn't get the same feelings and level of confidence that i had on the 690 the other day.

[weeksy]

On that basis I'd personally probably take the plunge and buy something really nice, choose wisely and you could have a new bike for 12-18 months and then sell it and not be out of pocket.

Well, you say "not out of pocket" but you're always £2000 out of pocket without doubt..

£1500 you've paid in the 12 months in 'renting' the bike and £500 in price to the dealer... Arguably you're more than that automatically as you're easily looking a grand into the dealer from what you pay to what you sell. So we're really at £2500.

I scored lucky with the XSR900 that the market went up and i got out of it for a good price... However, it wasn't a no-loss ownership that's for sure. But i'm OK with that, that's the nature of owning bikes (mostly anyway). But you factor in time, smiles and use and that's where you justify the cost of ownership to yourself.

But it's something i was actively looking to avoid in terms of personal finance. Sure i could come up with 'better' plans of funding purchases or better ways, but currently using finance suits my needs (i know you frown upon the idea as do many) and where i am in the world right now.

[weeksy]

but it does open a whole new world of opportunity.

It does and it doesn't in some ways. As we've seen over the years i'm quite set in my ways on what i want in a bike. I'm also like Pietin slightly stuck on my decisions by a knee issue. Mine isn't as bad as his by a long way, but it wipes out things like say a Tuono V4 due to being too uncomfortable on it.

So lets say hypothetically i wanted to open up the world above... What would it be... First lets go with the list of what we want.

1. Naked
2. Light
3. Sub 120bhp (really 100)
4. Decent spacious riding position
5. Works OK on back-roads and track
6. Non-IL4 engine.

Already i've wiped out 99% of the available bike market right there. I've then got a very short list and from what i can see it only really has 2-3 bikes on it now.
1. KTM 690 SMC-R / Duke
2. Yamaha MT07 / XSR700
3. Ducati Hypermotard

Well 1 i've got in the garage and the SMC-R not only is a position/style of bike i didn't quite gel with, which leaves the Duke...
2, Wigan Yamaha are punting them at £6700. Which is pretty darn cheap and Couchie raves about them
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154637705607 ... 1438.l2649
3. I'm not sure the Hyper is right for me. I don't even know why or what, but i'm just a bit 'meh' on them.

[weeksy]

If it's on the drip then why not a dream bike that you might keep for a while, something exotic, maybe a Dragster RC or similar exotica?

I'd be asking myself what bike I'd buy if I won the lottery, then start from there.

They're not a dream bike for me to ride... Not even remotely. I don't want oodles of power, i don't want stiff and harsh, i don't want super crazy power.

I get that the RC800 isn't exactly 200bhp, but it's more than i want and need for where i ride at 135bhp that's for sure.

It's also a stiff, firm and responsive bike... Again, not really suited to the roads where i ride and live. Despite not being the dream bike in the context of ownership, things like the KTM690/790, the MT07, even the Adventure bikes if I could get on with one, is arguably WAY better a bike for what i need.

[weeksy]

but a new KTM XXX might feel special enough to justify it.

The market/options are a little limited on that. Out of their list we've really got

690SMC-R and 890 if i were to go new.

Even going used i'd have 790 and 890 as the options

Having ridden the 790 and 890 last month both on the road and at Pembrey i'm 100% convinced it's not the right shape for me. Which then only leaves a 690SMC-R, however me and them haven't exactly bonded previously due to riding position of an MX bike and me not feeling at home on it. It's a fabulous concept of a bike, but i'm not sure the reality lives up to the concept for me personally. Especially once you add in they're £9000.

However, they are cool as penguin piss

[Supermofo]

I was very tempted by an all black 790 Duke in the KTM Centre Sat.

But I don't think I want another KTM. At the moment I'm most tempted by a GSXS 750. I don't mind the looks and in some colours actually like the looks, I wouldn't be precious about it so would worry about it less/use it more, they are cheap and with just over 100 bhp at the wheel about the right amount of power that I'm looking for. But they are IL4 so out for you but I don't mind IL4s, especially since hearing my brothers Z750 scream through it's Akro on Sat afternoon. A screaming IL4 750 it's the sound of Box Hill in the 90s.

[G.P]

You boys started early this morning!
The 690 is the bike for you weeksy. The one you put R forks on and then swapped for a Yamaha was probably the ideal example but this one is just fine. Get yourself some patience and just attack those little things that niggle you one at a time and it can be a keeper

[Taipan]

How are you going to get the snapped bolt out of the frame? That could be a real pain to sort?! Tank problem is a bit of a sod too. Was the purchase price low enough to cover getting past these issues? My concern would be more that there is every chance any replacement 690 will still have issues, nature of the beast, and all that.

Getting the bolt out will take MSG 15 mins. It's in an easily accessible position and soft enough that it'll be an easy drill out and re-tap of the hole for him. If i bought the right bits i'd arguably do myself. But the dealer i bought it from has offered to pay for that work anyway.

Then keep it. Don't lose sight of it being what you wanted and at a good price too and how keen to get the deal done you was. Once you've sorted a few teething troubles you'll soon have it in a polished, uber clean shape and its the later reliable model, with an akra and different maps uploaded. She's a keeper!

[Numnut]

I was very tempted by an all black 790 Duke in the KTM Centre Sat.

You're welcome to try mine just to see...I'm in north essex...

If it was me, I'd keep the 690, it's not quite perfect yet but there's nothing that can't be sorted, winters coming too so there's plenty of time to make it as nice as you want. It's got a nice shiny 15t sprocket on and has got the track pack installed now too. There's nothing that compares to a 690 for the riding experience and despite the nasty bolts they use, there's some nice kit on those bikes.

[weeksy]

but my 'solution' (if you'll permit me) to this issue is to carve out a little bit of money and some of your time and get the 690 to a place where you're really happy with it.

TBF mate i'm struggling to argue with you. If you've seen the 'now' pictures then it almost seems a bit of a farce to get out of this one now after i've put in time and effort to get it to where it is. I've not gone nuts on it in terms of money in it, only about £50 (if we ignore the track pack) and with another £50 then it's right up there in terms of condition. Well, for a used bike anyway.

As i've had the wheels out, the shock out and linkages etc i'm struggling to see what other pitfalls and issues we could run into and it's a very short list. I've just spent 20 mins in the garage looking over it as close as possible and i'm struggling to see what other issues we can run into with it. Things like yokes, risers, bars, headsets, clamps etc are all 100%. The camera highlights dirt in a massive way, but of the remaining dirt on the bike, you'd need to be climbing underneath it to see the issue.

I'm gonna sit here and wait to see what the dealer says before i throw in any sort of a decision. It's irritating that today is the sort of day that'd be ideal to grab a ride before the weather finally hits and turns to crap, but it's hardly the end of the universe.

Then again, the rad is held in by 3/4 bolts and would arguably be fine to ride anyhow

[weeksy]

You boys started early this morning!
The 690 is the bike for you weeksy. The one you put R forks on and then swapped for a Yamaha was probably the ideal example but this one is just fine. Get yourself some patience and just attack those little things that niggle you one at a time and it can be a keeper

You've got them slightly mixed up, the one i did the forks on was the one i sold to numnut from here (then from ktmforum), the latest one i chopped in for the Yamaha was the new 690 which had the dash issues, it had orange yokes, but not the R forks. TBF the forks on the 690s are not a problem in terms of performance, they're pretty damn good in honesty.