Mirror Therapy?

[Noggin]

Has anyone had/tried/found success with mirror therapy?

I have had a program of this added to everything else last week but it just made me laugh!! I was looking at the reflection of my left hand moving and trying to move my right to match. So my brain is supposed to link the visible movement to try and help the nerves 'remember' what they are supposed to be doing

I laughed a lot cos I could see the reflection doing what the left hand was doing - but could feel my right hand failing (and if I curl my fingers under my hand I cant get them back out again so then can't do any other movements!!)

They are trying again this week with ten minute sessions each with two therapists, then I need to do at least one ten minute session on my own

I know its usually used to help deal with ghost pains for amputees, and I do totally get why it 'should' help me - need to find a way to concentrate on the reflection rather than 'feel' what the right hand can't do!!

Just interested to hear any experiences that might help - or knowledge of the treatment that might help. I did google last week but didn't find much connected to a stretched nerve issue rather than amputation!?

[Horse]

Just a guess, but it may be similar to 'brain plasticity', which can be beneficial, for example, as part of rehab for stroke patients.

[gremlin]

I've seen this (on telly) being used for people with phantom limb pain. This one guy had lost his lower arm, which had healed up in physical terms, but he complained of constant pain where the missing hand was making a painful clenched fist. Obviously it wasn't, as it had been incinerated some months before, but the part of his nervous system dealing with the feelings in his missing arm hadn't got the memo and didn't know what to do, so it started going a bit haywire. They rigged up a mirror box so it looked like he had both hands in front of him and told him to clench and unclench 'both hands'. The guy's face as he did it was something else, the look of amazement and relief, as his 'hand' relaxed and the pain went away.
He had recurring episodes for a while, but the cheap, cobbled-together box did the trick every time.

[hawker]

Good luck with this. I understand that it has proved effective in controlling phantom pain in amputees when apparently the missing limb is felt to be in very painful contractions and spasms that cannot be relaxed and released. however seeing a functional opposite limb in the mirror tricks the brain into thinking that the relaxation movements in the visible limb are happening in the absent limb and ergo, the spasms and pain stop. Incredible really. Let's hope it works for you as well!

[Noggin]

Just a guess, but it may be similar to 'brain plasticity', which can be beneficial, for example, as part of rehab for stroke patients.

Will have to look up brain plasticity!!

Good luck with this. I understand that it has proved effective in controlling phantom pain in amputees when apparently the missing limb is felt to be in very painful contractions and spasms that cannot be relaxed and released. however seeing a functional opposite limb in the mirror tricks the brain into thinking that the relaxation movements in the visible limb are happening in the absent limb and ergo, the spasms and pain stop. Incredible really. Let's hope it works for you as well!

This (and what Gremlin posted) is how I've been aware of it - but they want to try and get my brain to help the muscles and recovering nerves to make my fingers move properly. TBF, given that the bit I can't do is the bit controlled by the radial nerve and that is the last (usually) nerve of the three to recover, I guess I need to have a conversation about exactly what they/we are trying to achieve!!

The downside at the first try was that I couldn't ignore the fact that, because I do have a right hand, I could feel that it wasn't doing what the 'right' hand I could see in the mirror was doing. It just made me laugh, especially when I was supposed to curl my fingers then straighten them - which I can't do with the right hand (yet - cancurl but then the fingers gets stuck as can't straighten them back out!)!! Kinda felt like I wasn't taking it seriously, but I was!! Just difficult when there is a limb/hand there that you can feel isn't co-operating!!!

I guess we will be trying it again soon, kind of expected it this morning but the new spider hand brace needed adjustment!!

Given that they've had the weekly meeting about all the patients today, I'll ask tomorrow if we are going to try again or if they think the progress is good enough without!! Not sure at all that I can switch off the feelings when I can see a perfect hand doing the movements but I can feel the duff one spazzing on the other side!!!

Must try harder!!!!!

[Taipan]

It's very good for helping amputees deal with ghosting pains apparently? So maybe fooling the brain does work?

I was told my right hand would probably never fullly work again but with physio I should be able to hold a pint glass, which I guess was the docs way of cushioning the blow? I had hot wax treatment and then MUA (manipulation under anaesthetic) but I'm not sure they even do that now. I worked on squeezing a tennis ball almost constantly and then got down to a squash ball and used to bnd my fingers with assistance from my other hand and eventually regained full use of the hand. IME you only get back what you put in and it takes a lo Of time and effort, so stick with it.

[Mussels]

My wife used to do therapy for acquired brain injuries (bike crashes being common) where people needed training to move their limbs properly again. A technique that sometimes worked was making them forget their injuries, get someone distracted enough and the brain does things automatically without thinking.
So if the mirror can help you even for a moment forget your injury it may help a lot but similar to hypnosis you need to allow yourself to be fooled.

[Noggin]

It's very good for helping amputees deal with ghosting pains apparently? So maybe fooling the brain does work?

I was told my right hand would probably never fullly work again but with physio I should be able to hold a pint glass, which I guess was the docs way of cushioning the blow? I had hot wax treatment and then MUA (manipulation under anaesthetic) but I'm not sure they even do that now. I worked on squeezing a tennis ball almost constantly and then got down to a squash ball and used to bnd my fingers with assistance from my other hand and eventually regained full use of the hand. IME you only get back what you put in and it takes a lo Of time and effort, so stick with it.

Oh, I'm putting in the effort!!! And definitely seeing improvement - just not able to use the arm yet, but it'll get there. In theory it could take 6-12 months. Currently ahead of the game tho, so don't want to do anything (or not do something) that will fk it up!!!

TBF, when you end up in a rehab centre with facilities like this, it'd be rude (at the least) not to try hard!!! Just started pool therapy today, so actually being told to limit the original exercises in my room in case i make the arm over tired!!!

I have a weekly timetable that has 4 hours of physio, occupational therapy & pool therapy.
Monday and Friday add half an hour of cycling in the gym.
Weds, an hour of stretching in the gym and 40 mins with a Psychomotriciene.
Thursday just add and hour or more with a psycologist.
Friday 40 mins with a Psychomotricien again

I'm shattered after the pool therapy (40 mins) so will need a few days to get used to that. But the guy running the gm has already offered me more time - if I can fit it in!!!

My wife used to do therapy for acquired brain injuries (bike crashes being common) where people needed training to move their limbs properly again. A technique that sometimes worked was making them forget their injuries, get someone distracted enough and the brain does things automatically without thinking.
So if the mirror can help you even for a moment forget your injury it may help a lot but similar to hypnosis you need to allow yourself to be fooled.

I think I'm in a weird situation - the limb and shoulder will be fine. No damage to the limb. And since the op I've had virtually no pain in the shoulder (after three years of increasing pain!)

The nerve stretch will recover and isn't painful. Although I do get random weird pains that are possibly the nerves

But, the arm/hand, without the full nerve assistance and probably some loss of muscle, can't move fully. It will (worst case probably 90-95%, but then my shoulder isn't going to be 100% either!!).

I can't currently physically make it move - there are some movements I can achieve with a physio supporting my elbow. But, for instance, I can't extend my fingers to be flat. Or, if I make my hand flat on a table and curl the fingers under to make a fist, I can't get the fingers back out!!

It isn't my brain stopping this, it's the nerve not being recovered in that area that stops it

Kinda why I asked about this therapy - it's a physical stop, not a mental one.


But, we tried again today and i tried hard to focus on the reflection and tried not to 'notice' the other hand. The physio also said to do movements to start with that my duff hand can actually do. Then I had to do others that it can't for the last few minutes.

I can see that it can encourage positive thoughts but I'm really not negative!!


I'll try to remember to quiz her about what it is supposed to achieve tomorrow. We had to wait until I had a certain amount of movement to start it, and I also do a computer program every day on recognising left or right hand in pictures and my scores had to be a certain level as well pre mirror therapy

It just seems weird that everything I've read about it, and that you guys have said, is not relevant to my issue!!

[Yorick]

Did you expect such a long recovery when you went in for surgery?

[Noggin]

Did you expect such a long recovery when you went in for surgery?

No!!! But the reason is that the nerves were stretched. If that hadn't happened, then I'd be leaving any day now with an awesome shiny new shoulder!!!!!!

[Yorick]

Did you expect such a long recovery when you went in for surgery?

No!!! But the reason is that the nerves were stretched. If that hadn't happened, then I'd be leaving any day now with an awesome shiny new shoulder!!!!!!

Aha. I remember now. But it's awesome that they're giving you so much care and rehab

[Noggin]

Did you expect such a long recovery when you went in for surgery?

No!!! But the reason is that the nerves were stretched. If that hadn't happened, then I'd be leaving any day now with an awesome shiny new shoulder!!!!!!

Aha. I remember now. But it's awesome that they're giving you so much care and rehab

It is awesome, but standard in France! Bloody awesome place! Luckily, the centre I'm in that is near the hospital happens to be one of the best in the country!!

[Noggin]

OK. So they are using mirror therapy in a similar way as with stroke patients.

The therapist does think that it is difficult for me because I have trouble 'pretending' (accepting?) that the reflection is my right hand

Obviously it isn't, it's just a reflection. But, I did try VERY hard to concentrate today (no giggling!!) because, if she thinks it will help, I need to participate fully and not fuck about!!!